My guest today is Graham Pionkowski, who's spent the last decade in the world of corporate recruiting, and helped a number of organizations up level their talent acquisition strategy, operations, and technologies. Most recently, he has served as the head of global talent acquisition at Bizarre Voice, a high tech company based in Austin, Texas. Over the last few years, he's been leading all things recruiting, including the TA strategy and operationalizing the day to day execution to bring top talent into the organization.

1. RecTech​ ​Podcast​ ​Transcript
Ep.​ ​41​ ​-​ ​Graham​ ​Pionkowski
https://www.rectechmedia.com/podcast/
RecTech​ ​is​ ​a​ ​podcast​ ​about​ ​recruiting​ ​technology​ ​available​ ​on
Tunes,​ ​Google​ ​Play​ ​and​ ​Soundcloud.
G.​ ​Pionkowski:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​My​ ​name​ ​is​ ​Graham​ ​Pionkowski,​ ​I'm​ ​a​ ​talent​ ​acquisition​ ​leader​ ​and​ ​HR​ ​tech
enthusiast,​ ​and​ ​I'm​ ​chatting​ ​with​ ​Christ​ ​next​ ​on​ ​the​ ​Rec​ ​Tech​ ​podcast.
Chris​ ​Russell:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​That's​ ​right,​ ​it's​ ​time​ ​for​ ​Rec​ ​Tech,​ ​the​ ​only​ ​podcast​ ​that​ ​helps​ ​employers​ ​and
recruiters​ ​connect​ ​with​ ​more​ ​candidates​ ​through​ ​technology-inspired​ ​conversations.​ ​If​ ​you'll
listen,​ ​you'll​ ​hear​ ​both​ ​recruiters​ ​and​ ​HR​ ​tech​ ​vendors​ ​talk​ ​about​ ​how​ ​they​ ​use​ ​tech​ ​to​ ​find
talents,​ ​but​ ​first​ ​as​ ​always,​ ​this​ ​episode​ ​of​ ​Rec​ ​Tech​ ​is​ ​sponsored​ ​by​ ​our​ ​friends​ ​at​ ​Job​ ​Fairing,
the​ ​job​ ​fair​ ​search​ ​engine.​ ​If​ ​your​ ​company​ ​is​ ​hosting​ ​a​ ​hiring​ ​event​ ​or​ ​job​ ​fair​ ​soon,​ ​well​ ​Job
Fairing​ ​will​ ​help​ ​you​ ​promote​ ​that​ ​event​ ​to​ ​a​ ​local​ ​audience​ ​in​ ​your​ ​city.​ ​Submitting​ ​your​ ​event​ ​is
free,​ ​but​ ​they'll​ ​also​ ​help​ ​you​ ​advertise​ ​it​ ​on​ ​channels​ ​like​ ​Facebook,​ ​if​ ​you​ ​choose​ ​to​ ​feature​ ​it
on​ ​the​ ​site​ ​for​ ​10,​ ​20,​ ​or​ ​30​ ​days​ ​at​ ​a​ ​time.​ ​It​ ​pays​ ​to​ ​advertise,​ ​so​ ​to​ ​ensure​ ​your​ ​hiring​ ​event​ ​is
well​ ​attended,​ ​head​ ​over​ ​to​ ​​jobfairing.com​,​ ​get​ ​it​ ​listed.
Now​ ​onto​ ​our​ ​guest,​ ​my​ ​guest​ ​today​ ​is​ ​Graham​ ​Pionkowski,​ ​who's​ ​spent​ ​the​ ​last​ ​decade​ ​in​ ​the
world​ ​of​ ​corporate​ ​recruiting,​ ​and​ ​helped​ ​a​ ​number​ ​of​ ​organizations​ ​up​ ​level​ ​their​ ​talent
acquisition​ ​strategy,​ ​operations,​ ​and​ ​technologies.​ ​Most​ ​recently,​ ​he​ ​has​ ​served​ ​as​ ​the​ ​head​ ​of
global​ ​talent​ ​acquisition​ ​at​ ​Bizarre​ ​Voice,​ ​a​ ​high​ ​tech​ ​company​ ​based​ ​in​ ​Austin,​ ​Texas.​ ​Over​ ​the
last​ ​few​ ​years,​ ​he's​ ​been​ ​leading​ ​all​ ​things​ ​recruiting,​ ​including​ ​the​ ​TA​ ​strategy​ ​and
operationalizing​ ​the​ ​day​ ​to​ ​day​ ​execution​ ​to​ ​bring​ ​top​ ​talent​ ​into​ ​the​ ​organization.​ ​Graham,
welcome​ ​to​ ​Rec​ ​Tech,​ ​it's​ ​nice​ ​to​ ​have​ ​you.
G.​ ​Pionkowski:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Thanks​ ​so​ ​much​ ​for​ ​having​ ​me,​ ​Chris,​ ​it's​ ​a​ ​pleasure.
Chris​ ​Russell:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Yeah,​ ​looking​ ​forward​ ​to​ ​the​ ​conversation​ ​today.​ ​You've​ ​been​ ​in​ ​the​ ​recruiting
space​ ​in​ ​the​ ​corporate​ ​world​ ​for​ ​awhile,​ ​it's​ ​evolved​ ​a​ ​lot​ ​over​ ​the​ ​last​ ​decade​ ​or​ ​so.​ ​I'm​ ​curious
from​ ​your​ ​perspective,​ ​what​ ​are​ ​some​ ​of​ ​the​ ​major​ ​shifts​ ​you've​ ​seen​ ​in​ ​the​ ​last​ ​couple​ ​years,
what's​ ​top​ ​of​ ​mind​ ​for​ ​you?
G.​ ​Pionkowski:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Yeah​ ​Chris,​ ​you're​ ​so​ ​right,​ ​the​ ​recruiting​ ​industry​ ​does​ ​seem​ ​to​ ​be​ ​moving
just​ ​at​ ​light​ ​speed​ ​right​ ​now​ ​in​ ​so​ ​many​ ​ways,​ ​from​ ​the​ ​technologies​ ​we​ ​use,​ ​the​ ​way​ ​we​ ​market
our​ ​jobs,​ ​the​ ​way​ ​candidates​ ​interact​ ​with​ ​us​ ​as​ ​employers.​ ​The​ ​first​ ​major​ ​shift​ ​worth
mentioning​ ​is​ ​that​ ​identifying​ ​candidates​ ​is​ ​no​ ​longer​ ​the​ ​major​ ​hurdle.​ ​The​ ​primary​ ​challenge

2. for​ ​recruiters​ ​today​ ​has​ ​become​ ​whether​ ​they're​ ​able​ ​to​ ​engage​ ​talent​ ​and​ ​build​ ​relationships.
Many​ ​recruiters​ ​were​ ​bound​ ​to​ ​their​ ​ATS​ ​over​ ​the​ ​past​ ​decade,​ ​but​ ​now​ ​the​ ​internet​ ​is​ ​your
candidate​ ​database.
​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​As​ ​a​ ​recruiter,​ ​you​ ​no​ ​longer​ ​need​ ​to​ ​necessarily​ ​be​ ​Boolean​ ​black​ ​belts​ ​to​ ​identify
talent,​ ​so​ ​over​ ​the​ ​past​ ​few​ ​years,​ ​the​ ​sourcing​ ​tools​ ​have​ ​become​ ​very​ ​sophisticated​ ​and​ ​more
user​ ​friendly.​ ​Now​ ​it's​ ​likely​ ​anyone​ ​in​ ​your​ ​organization​ ​can​ ​search​ ​for​ ​candidates​ ​on​ ​the​ ​open
web​ ​with​ ​minimal​ ​effort​ ​and​ ​little​ ​to​ ​no​ ​sourcing​ ​chops.​ ​There's​ ​many​ ​different​ ​options​ ​to​ ​gain
access​ ​to​ ​candidate​ ​contact​ ​details​ ​through​ ​web​ ​browser​ ​extensions​ ​like​ ​Prophet,​ ​or​ ​simply
through​ ​social​ ​media​ ​or​ ​professional​ ​sites.​ ​It's​ ​no​ ​secret​ ​that​ ​every​ ​employee​ ​in​ ​your
organization​ ​has​ ​a​ ​professional​ ​talent​ ​network​ ​that​ ​you​ ​can​ ​tap​ ​into​ ​for​ ​vetted​ ​talent,​ ​for​ ​high
conversion​ ​referrals,​ ​through​ ​employee​ ​referral​ ​programs​ ​and​ ​various​ ​candidate​ ​referral
technology.
​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Instead​ ​of​ ​identification,​ ​now​ ​the​ ​challenge​ ​for​ ​recruiters​ ​is​ ​getting​ ​the​ ​conversation,
which​ ​means​ ​for​ ​most​ ​of​ ​us,​ ​we​ ​need​ ​a​ ​compelling​ ​EVP,​ ​to​ ​pitch​ ​passive​ ​candidates,​ ​an
attractive​ ​employer​ ​brand​ ​to​ ​pique​ ​the​ ​interest​ ​of​ ​candidates​ ​that​ ​we​ ​want​ ​to​ ​engage,​ ​and​ ​we
need​ ​to​ ​be​ ​savvy​ ​salespeople​ ​in​ ​order​ ​to​ ​interpret​ ​their​ ​wants,​ ​their​ ​needs​ ​of​ ​our​ ​targeted​ ​talent,
and​ ​create​ ​an​ ​intriguing​ ​conversation,​ ​build​ ​that​ ​relationship​ ​over​ ​time,​ ​and​ ​provide​ ​a
memorable​ ​experience​ ​for​ ​them​ ​in​ ​order​ ​to​ ​be​ ​successful.
Chris​ ​Russell:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​One​ ​of​ ​the​ ​challenges​ ​because​ ​of​ ​that,​ ​Graham,​ ​I​ ​think​ ​is​ ​that​ ​initial​ ​reach​ ​out
to​ ​the​ ​candidate​ ​in​ ​terms​ ​of​ ​just​ ​getting​ ​noticed​ ​by​ ​them.​ ​Talk​ ​about​ ​that,​ ​really​ ​if​ ​you​ ​could,​ ​in
terms​ ​of​ ​the​ ​initial​ ​approach​ ​to​ ​reaching​ ​out​ ​to​ ​candidates​ ​through​ ​all​ ​these​ ​new​ ​social
technologies.​ ​Like​ ​you​ ​said,​ ​it​ ​is​ ​easier​ ​to​ ​find​ ​them,​ ​but​ ​you​ ​still​ ​have​ ​to​ ​get​ ​their​ ​attention,
right?
G.​ ​Pionkowski:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​That's​ ​absolutely​ ​correct,​ ​Chris.​ ​That's​ ​really​ ​where​ ​the​ ​beauty​ ​of​ ​the​ ​internet
and​ ​the​ ​social​ ​profiles,​ ​allows​ ​you​ ​to​ ​do​ ​a​ ​lot​ ​of​ ​research​ ​and​ ​come​ ​up​ ​with​ ​an​ ​intriguing​ ​way​ ​to
get​ ​that​ ​person's​ ​attention.​ ​The​ ​most​ ​likely​ ​top​ ​talent​ ​is​ ​being​ ​spammed​ ​from​ ​many​ ​different
angles,​ ​and​ ​so​ ​the​ ​abilities​ ​for​ ​recruiters​ ​to​ ​really​ ​take​ ​a​ ​marketing​ ​perspective​ ​on​ ​how​ ​to​ ​get
that​ ​person's​ ​attention​ ​and​ ​get​ ​that​ ​dialog​ ​is​ ​just​ ​crucial​ ​at​ ​this​ ​time.
Chris​ ​Russell:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​You've​ ​mentioned​ ​you've​ ​been​ ​implementing​ ​some​ ​recruiting​ ​technologies
over​ ​the​ ​past​ ​few​ ​years​ ​in​ ​your​ ​past​ ​roles,​ ​especially​ ​in​ ​the​ ​high​ ​tech​ ​market,​ ​talk​ ​about​ ​some​ ​of
those​ ​if​ ​you​ ​would,​ ​how​ ​you've​ ​implemented​ ​them,​ ​some​ ​of​ ​the​ ​challenges​ ​around​ ​that.
G.​ ​Pionkowski:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Yeah​ ​Chris,​ ​so​ ​I​ ​think​ ​the​ ​primary​ ​challenge​ ​for​ ​me​ ​over​ ​the​ ​past​ ​few​ ​years
has​ ​been​ ​building​ ​the​ ​TA​ ​function​ ​and​ ​recruiting​ ​culture​ ​that​ ​is​ ​able​ ​to​ ​adapt​ ​quickly​ ​to​ ​the
constant​ ​change​ ​and​ ​the​ ​needs​ ​of​ ​a​ ​fast-moving​ ​organization.​ ​You've​ ​got​ ​to​ ​be​ ​agile​ ​as​ ​a
recruiting​ ​function​ ​to​ ​handle​ ​the​ ​fluctuating​ ​hiring​ ​needs,​ ​the​ ​varying​ ​skillsets​ ​that​ ​are​ ​coming​ ​at
you,​ ​the​ ​global​ ​footprint.​ ​You're​ ​constantly​ ​problem​ ​solving,​ ​but​ ​that's​ ​the​ ​fun​ ​part,​ ​right?​ ​Let​ ​me
share​ ​a​ ​few​ ​things​ ​I​ ​focused​ ​on​ ​to​ ​help​ ​us​ ​become​ ​more​ ​nimble.
​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​First​ ​thing's​ ​first,​ ​it's​ ​my​ ​experience​ ​that​ ​your​ ​ability​ ​to​ ​recruit​ ​is​ ​only​ ​as​ ​good​ ​as
your​ ​recruiting​ ​team.​ ​I've​ ​had​ ​the​ ​pleasure​ ​to​ ​build​ ​a​ ​team​ ​of​ ​recruiting​ ​experts​ ​with​ ​unique

3. styles​ ​and​ ​different​ ​expertise,​ ​and​ ​organized​ ​the​ ​team​ ​into​ ​work​ ​groups​ ​so​ ​there's​ ​multiple
skillsets​ ​that​ ​could​ ​be​ ​inserted​ ​into​ ​their​ ​daily​ ​workflows​ ​and​ ​our​ ​various​ ​hiring​ ​initiatives.​ ​We
also​ ​borrowed​ ​a​ ​few​ ​techniques​ ​from​ ​agile​ ​methodologies​ ​like​ ​daily​ ​stand-ups,​ ​and​ ​sprints​ ​and
roadmaps,​ ​and​ ​we​ ​put​ ​a​ ​lot​ ​of​ ​time​ ​and​ ​energy​ ​into​ ​empowering​ ​the​ ​team​ ​with​ ​the​ ​KSAs​ ​to​ ​be
strategic​ ​talent​ ​advisors​ ​to​ ​the​ ​business,​ ​instead​ ​of​ ​simply​ ​being​ ​order-takers.
​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Another​ ​focus​ ​is​ ​just​ ​getting​ ​the​ ​rest​ ​of​ ​the​ ​company​ ​involved.​ ​I've​ ​always​ ​been​ ​in
the​ ​mindset​ ​that​ ​an​ ​organization​ ​which​ ​is​ ​relying​ ​solely​ ​on​ ​the​ ​abilities​ ​of​ ​their​ ​recruiting​ ​isle​ ​to
fulfill​ ​their​ ​talent​ ​needs​ ​is​ ​going​ ​to​ ​have​ ​difficulty​ ​keeping​ ​up.​ ​It​ ​was​ ​vital​ ​that​ ​we​ ​strengthened
our​ ​company​ ​culture​ ​of​ ​always​ ​recruiting,​ ​by​ ​making​ ​sure​ ​that​ ​the​ ​organization​ ​was​ ​trained​ ​up
on​ ​all​ ​things​ ​recruiting,​ ​such​ ​as​ ​how​ ​do​ ​we​ ​do​ ​competency-based​ ​interviewing,​ ​making​ ​sure​ ​that
they​ ​understood​ ​how​ ​to​ ​participate​ ​in​ ​our​ ​employee​ ​referral​ ​program​ ​to​ ​help​ ​get​ ​us​ ​quality​ ​leads
into​ ​our​ ​pipeline,​ ​and​ ​that​ ​they​ ​took​ ​the​ ​candidate​ ​experience​ ​seriously​ ​so​ ​that​ ​it​ ​could​ ​be​ ​a​ ​key
big​ ​differentiator​ ​for​ ​us,​ ​and​ ​left​ ​a​ ​good​ ​impression​ ​on​ ​our​ ​talent​ ​pools,​ ​whether​ ​we​ ​got​ ​to​ ​the
offer​ ​stage​ ​or​ ​not.
​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Finally,​ ​in​ ​order​ ​to​ ​then​ ​scale​ ​and​ ​empower​ ​the​ ​business,​ ​I​ ​focused​ ​very​ ​heavily​ ​on
creating​ ​a​ ​TA​ ​tech​ ​stack​ ​that​ ​enables​ ​collaboration.​ ​To​ ​do​ ​this,​ ​I've​ ​been​ ​extremely​ ​fortunate​ ​to
have​ ​had​ ​the​ ​opportunity​ ​to​ ​partner​ ​with​ ​best​ ​in​ ​breed​ ​vendors​ ​over​ ​the​ ​past​ ​few​ ​years​ ​like
I-SIMS,​ ​most​ ​recently,​ ​Lever,​ ​and​ ​other​ ​great​ ​vendors​ ​to​ ​overlay​ ​technology​ ​to​ ​help​ ​us​ ​as​ ​a
recruiting​ ​function​ ​take​ ​a​ ​more​ ​candidate-centered​ ​approach,​ ​be​ ​more​ ​efficient​ ​in​ ​how​ ​we​ ​work
as​ ​recruiters,​ ​provide​ ​our​ ​candidates​ ​with​ ​a​ ​standout​ ​experience​ ​when​ ​they​ ​interact​ ​with​ ​us,​ ​and
just​ ​to​ ​get​ ​the​ ​business​ ​involved​ ​at​ ​all​ ​stages​ ​in​ ​the​ ​recruiting​ ​process.​ ​I​ ​feel,​ ​Chris,​ ​that​ ​being​ ​a
good​ ​talent​ ​leader​ ​today​ ​means​ ​you​ ​need​ ​to​ ​get​ ​good​ ​at​ ​embracing​ ​change,​ ​and​ ​to​ ​keep​ ​up,
you​ ​must​ ​be​ ​willing​ ​to​ ​be​ ​able​ ​to​ ​constantly​ ​evolve,​ ​because​ ​what​ ​works​ ​today,​ ​as​ ​you​ ​know,
might​ ​not​ ​work​ ​tomorrow.
Chris​ ​Russell:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Right.​ ​Two​ ​follow​ ​up​ ​questions​ ​for​ ​you,​ ​Graham,​ ​what​ ​sourcing​ ​tools​ ​were​ ​you
using?​ ​Then​ ​secondly,​ ​talk​ ​about​ ​the​ ​importance​ ​of​ ​speed​ ​in​ ​hiring,​ ​in​ ​terms​ ​of​ ​especially​ ​with​ ​a
lot​ ​of​ ​these​ ​top​ ​tier​ ​tech​ ​candidates,​ ​how​ ​important​ ​is​ ​it​ ​to​ ​move​ ​quickly​ ​on​ ​them?​ ​Because​ ​I​ ​see
a​ ​lot​ ​of​ ​companies​ ​still​ ​getting​ ​bogged​ ​down​ ​in​ ​the​ ​processes​ ​sometimes.
G.​ ​Pionkowski:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Right,​ ​now​ ​speed​ ​is​ ​absolutely​ ​critical.​ ​A​ ​couple​ ​of​ ​the​ ​sourcing​ ​tools​ ​to
mention​ ​that​ ​we​ ​use,​ ​you​ ​know​ ​Lever​ ​has​ ​a​ ​very​ ​differentiated​ ​product​ ​where​ ​every​ ​employee​ ​in
your​ ​organization​ ​can​ ​participate​ ​in​ ​your​ ​sourcing​ ​efforts​ ​through​ ​their​ ​Chrome​ ​extension,​ ​which
you​ ​can​ ​provide​ ​high​ ​conversion​ ​referral​ ​candidates,​ ​you​ ​can​ ​do​ ​lead​ ​generation,​ ​simply​ ​from
browsing​ ​the​ ​web​ ​or​ ​participating​ ​where​ ​you​ ​would​ ​normally​ ​work,​ ​on​ ​LinkedIn,​ ​through​ ​stack
overflow​ ​if​ ​you're​ ​an​ ​engineer.​ ​That​ ​was​ ​very​ ​valuable​ ​to​ ​us.​ ​We​ ​also​ ​used​ ​other
sourcing-specific​ ​technology​ ​such​ ​as​ ​[Intello​ ​00:09:42]​ ​for​ ​those​ ​really​ ​heavy​ ​lifting​ ​searches
that​ ​we​ ​needed​ ​to​ ​go​ ​deeper,​ ​or​ ​to​ ​help​ ​us​ ​with​ ​some​ ​of​ ​our​ ​diversity​ ​recruitment​ ​initiatives.
Those​ ​were​ ​the​ ​primary​ ​sourcing​ ​tools​ ​that​ ​we​ ​employed​ ​over​ ​the​ ​last​ ​couple​ ​years.
Chris​ ​Russell:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Nice.​ ​Yeah,​ ​how​ ​about​ ​the​ ​speed​ ​of​ ​things?​ ​I​ ​mean,​ ​I​ ​still​ ​think​ ​companies
aren't​ ​quite​ ​quick​ ​enough​ ​on​ ​the​ ​draw​ ​it​ ​seems​ ​like​ ​sometimes,​ ​when​ ​pulling​ ​that​ ​trigger,​ ​don't
you​ ​think?

4. G.​ ​Pionkowski:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​I​ ​totally​ ​agree,​ ​Chris.​ ​I​ ​think​ ​that​ ​what​ ​we​ ​find,​ ​especially​ ​in​ ​the​ ​high​ ​tech
market​ ​when​ ​you​ ​look​ ​at​ ​the​ ​need​ ​for​ ​these​ ​really​ ​hot​ ​positions​ ​like​ ​data​ ​scientist,​ ​and​ ​others
that​ ​are​ ​going​ ​to​ ​really​ ​drive​ ​you​ ​forward,​ ​you​ ​know​ ​they​ ​may​ ​have​ ​dialogs​ ​going​ ​with​ ​multiple
employers​ ​at​ ​one​ ​time.​ ​There's​ ​really​ ​no​ ​room​ ​to​ ​have​ ​an​ ​inefficient​ ​process.​ ​You​ ​will​ ​notice​ ​that
you​ ​will​ ​lose​ ​candidates​ ​very​ ​quickly​ ​if​ ​you're​ ​not​ ​extremely​ ​quick​ ​to​ ​the​ ​draw,​ ​and​ ​a​ ​lot​ ​of​ ​that​ ​is
just​ ​doing​ ​your​ ​research,​ ​making​ ​sure​ ​that​ ​you're​ ​working​ ​very​ ​closely​ ​with​ ​the​ ​business.​ ​I've
been​ ​fortunate​ ​that​ ​the​ ​businesses​ ​I've​ ​worked​ ​with​ ​have​ ​truly​ ​understood​ ​that​ ​and​ ​been​ ​willing
to​ ​move​ ​at​ ​the​ ​pace​ ​of​ ​recruiting,​ ​and​ ​been​ ​more​ ​candidate-centric​ ​about​ ​that,​ ​than​ ​at​ ​the​ ​pace
of​ ​the​ ​organization.
Chris​ ​Russell:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Graham,​ ​talk​ ​about​ ​some​ ​of​ ​the​ ​challenges​ ​you​ ​face​ ​when​ ​implementing
some​ ​of​ ​these​ ​new​ ​recruiting​ ​technologies​ ​out​ ​there,​ ​it​ ​sounds​ ​like​ ​you've​ ​done​ ​a​ ​lot​ ​of​ ​that​ ​stuff.
How​ ​does​ ​that​ ​fit​ ​into​ ​the​ ​new​ ​HR​ ​stack,​ ​do​ ​you​ ​think?
G.​ ​Pionkowski:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Yeah,​ ​so​ ​I​ ​think​ ​most​ ​of​ ​your​ ​listeners​ ​can​ ​relate​ ​here,​ ​but​ ​you​ ​know​ ​HR​ ​as​ ​a
whole​ ​continues​ ​to​ ​struggle​ ​with​ ​being​ ​seen​ ​as​ ​both​ ​a​ ​cost​ ​center​ ​and​ ​an​ ​administrative
function,​ ​that's​ ​just​ ​our​ ​reality.​ ​For​ ​most​ ​companies​ ​that​ ​get​ ​it,​ ​and​ ​those​ ​of​ ​us​ ​in​ ​the​ ​field,​ ​we
understand​ ​the​ ​impact​ ​to​ ​our​ ​business​ ​results​ ​if​ ​talent​ ​acquisition​ ​is​ ​viewed​ ​as​ ​a​ ​strategic​ ​driver
and​ ​worthy​ ​of​ ​investment.​ ​The​ ​constant​ ​hurdle​ ​is​ ​being​ ​able​ ​to​ ​demonstrate​ ​the​ ​business​ ​value
that​ ​recruiting​ ​technologies​ ​are​ ​bringing​ ​to​ ​the​ ​business,​ ​or​ ​could​ ​add​ ​in​ ​order​ ​to​ ​get​ ​buy-in.
Chris,​ ​the​ ​new​ ​reality​ ​for​ ​TA​ ​leaders​ ​is​ ​you​ ​must​ ​be​ ​constantly​ ​developing​ ​your​ ​business​ ​case,
your​ ​ability​ ​as​ ​a​ ​business​ ​to​ ​compete​ ​for​ ​talent​ ​and​ ​retain​ ​human​ ​capital​ ​has​ ​made​ ​this
absolutely​ ​critical.
​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Let's​ ​say​ ​you're​ ​successful​ ​in​ ​getting​ ​the​ ​green​ ​light​ ​for​ ​either​ ​upgrading​ ​or​ ​adding
TA​ ​to​ ​your​ ​tech​ ​stack.​ ​The​ ​next​ ​challenge​ ​is,​ ​how​ ​do​ ​you​ ​decide​ ​what​ ​vendor​ ​to​ ​partner​ ​with
and​ ​proceed​ ​with?​ ​My​ ​advice​ ​for​ ​your​ ​listeners​ ​is​ ​to​ ​proceed​ ​with​ ​caution,​ ​you​ ​know​ ​there's​ ​lots
of​ ​lofty​ ​claims​ ​being​ ​made,​ ​which​ ​creates​ ​lots​ ​of​ ​noise​ ​out​ ​there,​ ​but​ ​when​ ​you're​ ​shopping​ ​for
new​ ​technologies​ ​and​ ​tools,​ ​and​ ​also​ ​you're​ ​getting​ ​pulled​ ​and​ ​pressure​ ​from​ ​other​ ​business
units​ ​like​ ​your​ ​IT​ ​department,​ ​that​ ​may​ ​want​ ​you​ ​to​ ​consolidate​ ​your​ ​contract​ ​or​ ​try​ ​and​ ​find
some​ ​economies​ ​of​ ​scale​ ​with​ ​technologies​ ​that​ ​aren't​ ​necessarily​ ​best​ ​in​ ​breed​ ​for​ ​recruiting,
but​ ​that​ ​your​ ​organization​ ​is​ ​already​ ​using​ ​for​ ​other​ ​things.
​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​I​ ​think​ ​it's​ ​important​ ​to​ ​do​ ​your​ ​necessary​ ​diligence​ ​before​ ​making​ ​purchasing
decisions.​ ​I​ ​think​ ​you​ ​need​ ​to​ ​consider​ ​your​ ​specific​ ​organization's​ ​present​ ​and​ ​future​ ​state,
think​ ​on​ ​the​ ​key​ ​recruiting​ ​challenges​ ​you​ ​face,​ ​and​ ​keep​ ​in​ ​mind​ ​your​ ​specific​ ​company's
culture​ ​and​ ​target​ ​talent​ ​markets.​ ​Once​ ​you've​ ​gone​ ​through​ ​all​ ​the​ ​work​ ​to​ ​get​ ​buy-in,​ ​you​ ​want
to​ ​make​ ​sure​ ​that​ ​you're​ ​choosing​ ​your​ ​tech​ ​wisely,​ ​and​ ​so​ ​it's​ ​successful​ ​in​ ​helping​ ​to​ ​alleviate
your​ ​pain​ ​points.​ ​I​ ​tend​ ​to​ ​look​ ​at​ ​new​ ​technologies​ ​from​ ​the​ ​viewpoint​ ​of​ ​how​ ​will​ ​this​ ​enhance
my​ ​abilities​ ​to​ ​deliver​ ​results,​ ​and​ ​add​ ​value​ ​to​ ​the​ ​existing​ ​tech​ ​stack.
​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​This​ ​means​ ​taking​ ​an​ ​integrated​ ​approach,​ ​because​ ​I​ ​find​ ​disjointed​ ​systems​ ​to​ ​be
extremely​ ​inefficient,​ ​and​ ​oftentimes​ ​a​ ​headache​ ​to​ ​a​ ​recruiter's​ ​daily​ ​workflow.​ ​A​ ​quick
example,​ ​I​ ​recently​ ​implemented​ ​Lever,​ ​as​ ​I​ ​mentioned,​ ​as​ ​the​ ​core​ ​of​ ​our​ ​TA​ ​tech​ ​stack,​ ​and
was​ ​successful​ ​in​ ​integrating​ ​all​ ​but​ ​one​ ​of​ ​the​ ​complementing​ ​solutions​ ​in​ ​our​ ​toolkit.​ ​You​ ​can

5. imagine​ ​the​ ​efficiencies​ ​gained​ ​here,​ ​even​ ​if​ ​you​ ​simply​ ​look​ ​at​ ​it​ ​from​ ​a​ ​recruiter​ ​productivity
standpoint​ ​in​ ​their​ ​day​ ​to​ ​day.​ ​Again​ ​Chris,​ ​I​ ​think​ ​it's​ ​extremely​ ​important​ ​for​ ​your​ ​listeners​ ​in
the​ ​field​ ​to​ ​keep​ ​in​ ​mind​ ​that​ ​the​ ​technology​ ​alone​ ​does​ ​not​ ​usually​ ​solve​ ​the​ ​problems​ ​out​ ​of
the​ ​box.
​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Recruiting​ ​technology​ ​should​ ​better​ ​enable​ ​your​ ​strategy​ ​by​ ​enhancing​ ​your
processes​ ​and​ ​your​ ​operating​ ​procedures,​ ​and​ ​you​ ​need​ ​to​ ​make​ ​sure​ ​that​ ​your​ ​foundations
that​ ​you're​ ​laying​ ​your​ ​technologies​ ​on​ ​top​ ​of​ ​are​ ​strong​ ​to​ ​begin​ ​with,​ ​and​ ​then​ ​you'll​ ​be​ ​able​ ​to
realize​ ​the​ ​significant​ ​value​ ​in​ ​the​ ​awesome​ ​recruiting​ ​tech​ ​that's​ ​out​ ​there.
Chris​ ​Russell:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​What​ ​ATS​ ​did​ ​you​ ​transition​ ​from,​ ​Graham,​ ​to​ ​Lever?
G.​ ​Pionkowski:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Yeah,​ ​previously​ ​we​ ​were​ ​I-SIMS​ ​users.
Chris​ ​Russell:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Okay,​ ​and​ ​how​ ​did​ ​your​ ​recruiters​ ​handle​ ​that?​ ​Because​ ​I​ ​know​ ​a​ ​lot​ ​of
recruiters​ ​when​ ​they​ ​hear​ ​a​ ​new​ ​ATS​ ​is​ ​coming,​ ​they​ ​cringe​ ​sometimes,​ ​but​ ​what​ ​was​ ​your
experience​ ​like?
G.​ ​Pionkowski:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​My​ ​experience​ ​was​ ​that​ ​it​ ​was​ ​very​ ​smooth​ ​actually.​ ​You​ ​know,​ ​there​ ​are​ ​just
so​ ​many​ ​great​ ​technologies​ ​out​ ​there,​ ​I-SIMS​ ​being​ ​one​ ​of​ ​the​ ​best​ ​in​ ​the​ ​industry​ ​in​ ​my
opinion.​ ​I​ ​think​ ​that​ ​when​ ​you​ ​step​ ​back​ ​and​ ​you​ ​look​ ​at​ ​what​ ​technologies​ ​and​ ​what​ ​pain​ ​points
do​ ​your​ ​companies​ ​specifically​ ​have,​ ​and​ ​what​ ​technologies​ ​are​ ​out​ ​there​ ​that​ ​can​ ​help​ ​solve
those​ ​problems,​ ​it's​ ​different​ ​organization​ ​to​ ​organization.​ ​Some​ ​of​ ​the​ ​pain​ ​points​ ​that​ ​we​ ​were
looking​ ​to​ ​alleviate​ ​when​ ​we​ ​brought​ ​Lever​ ​onboard,​ ​you​ ​know​ ​the​ ​recruiters​ ​were​ ​bought​ ​into
that​ ​and​ ​were​ ​involved​ ​at​ ​every​ ​stage​ ​of​ ​implementing​ ​that​ ​technology,​ ​which​ ​I​ ​think​ ​made​ ​for​ ​a
very​ ​easy​ ​transition.
Chris​ ​Russell:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​The​ ​only​ ​tip​ ​I​ ​have​ ​as​ ​far​ ​as​ ​the​ ​recruiters​ ​out​ ​there​ ​listening​ ​to​ ​this​ ​who​ ​might
be​ ​about​ ​to​ ​embark​ ​on​ ​a​ ​new​ ​recruiting​ ​technology​ ​project​ ​is​ ​to​ ​also​ ​think​ ​about​ ​the​ ​technology
as​ ​well.​ ​If​ ​you​ ​don't​ ​understand​ ​the​ ​technology,​ ​bring​ ​somebody​ ​in​ ​who​ ​does,​ ​maybe​ ​someone
from​ ​your​ ​IT​ ​team​ ​that​ ​could​ ​help​ ​be​ ​a​ ​sounding​ ​board​ ​for​ ​you,​ ​as​ ​far​ ​as​ ​what​ ​some​ ​of​ ​these
acronyms​ ​mean,​ ​and​ ​just​ ​have​ ​them​ ​listen​ ​in​ ​on​ ​the​ ​conversations​ ​with​ ​these​ ​vendors​ ​that
you're​ ​talking​ ​to,​ ​because​ ​I​ ​think​ ​getting​ ​a​ ​technical​ ​perspective​ ​on​ ​what​ ​they're​ ​saying​ ​is​ ​also
important,​ ​wouldn't​ ​you​ ​agree?
G.​ ​Pionkowski:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​That's​ ​fantastic​ ​advice,​ ​I​ ​totally​ ​agree.​ ​I​ ​think​ ​the​ ​more​ ​you​ ​can​ ​lean​ ​on​ ​the
expertise​ ​within​ ​your​ ​business​ ​as​ ​well​ ​as​ ​customers​ ​that​ ​have​ ​been​ ​through​ ​similar​ ​processes
as​ ​you,​ ​or​ ​company's​ ​lookalike​ ​is​ ​extremely​ ​valuable​ ​to​ ​include​ ​in​ ​just​ ​your​ ​process​ ​of​ ​both
evaluating​ ​new​ ​software,​ ​but​ ​as​ ​well​ ​as​ ​implementing.
Chris​ ​Russell:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Graham,​ ​let's​ ​switch​ ​gears​ ​for​ ​a​ ​second.​ ​There's​ ​never​ ​been​ ​more​ ​HR
technology​ ​than​ ​there​ ​is​ ​right​ ​now​ ​today,​ ​as​ ​you​ ​look​ ​at​ ​the​ ​landscape.​ ​I'm​ ​curious​ ​what​ ​advice
you​ ​have​ ​for​ ​entrepreneurs​ ​and​ ​startups​ ​in​ ​this​ ​space​ ​who​ ​are​ ​looking​ ​to​ ​get​ ​the​ ​business​ ​of
these​ ​talent​ ​leaders,​ ​get​ ​their​ ​attention,​ ​I​ ​mean​ ​how​ ​should​ ​they​ ​approach​ ​people​ ​like​ ​you?

6. G.​ ​Pionkowski:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Yeah,​ ​well​ ​first​ ​off,​ ​keep​ ​up​ ​the​ ​innovation.​ ​It​ ​feels​ ​to​ ​me,​ ​and​ ​I'm​ ​sure​ ​there's
a​ ​number​ ​of​ ​your​ ​listeners​ ​that​ ​would​ ​agree​ ​that​ ​HR​ ​technology​ ​has​ ​been​ ​lagging​ ​behind​ ​other
industries​ ​and​ ​professions,​ ​and​ ​I'm​ ​not​ ​convinced​ ​that​ ​that's​ ​our​ ​reality​ ​anymore.​ ​It's​ ​great​ ​to
begin​ ​to​ ​have​ ​access​ ​to​ ​technologies​ ​that​ ​are​ ​really​ ​enhancing​ ​our​ ​abilities​ ​to​ ​do​ ​our​ ​jobs.​ ​All
that​ ​said,​ ​it​ ​also​ ​feels​ ​like​ ​a​ ​noisy​ ​space​ ​right​ ​now,​ ​and​ ​there's​ ​a​ ​lot​ ​of​ ​lofty​ ​claims.​ ​Here's​ ​a​ ​few
pieces​ ​of​ ​advice​ ​for​ ​new​ ​technologies​ ​or​ ​entrepreneurs​ ​entering​ ​the​ ​space​ ​of​ ​TA​ ​tech,​ ​first​ ​let's
address​ ​those​ ​lofty​ ​claims.
​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​I​ ​have​ ​yet​ ​to​ ​find​ ​a​ ​comprehensive​ ​TA​ ​solution​ ​out​ ​there​ ​that​ ​makes​ ​all​ ​of​ ​my
problems​ ​go​ ​away.​ ​There's​ ​immediate​ ​skepticism​ ​if​ ​that's​ ​your​ ​claim,​ ​it's​ ​not​ ​a​ ​one​ ​size​ ​fits​ ​all
across​ ​every​ ​organization​ ​in​ ​the​ ​industry.​ ​I've​ ​seen​ ​success​ ​using​ ​a​ ​particular​ ​technology​ ​at​ ​one
organization,​ ​and​ ​then​ ​seeing​ ​that​ ​strategy​ ​fall​ ​short​ ​at​ ​another.​ ​My​ ​recommendation​ ​would​ ​be
to​ ​take​ ​a​ ​close​ ​look​ ​at​ ​the​ ​prospects​ ​that​ ​you're​ ​looking​ ​to​ ​sell​ ​your​ ​solution​ ​to,​ ​in​ ​order​ ​to​ ​make
sure​ ​that​ ​it's​ ​truly​ ​a​ ​good​ ​fit.​ ​Also,​ ​you​ ​know​ ​instead​ ​of,​ ​to​ ​that​ ​point,​ ​there's​ ​probably​ ​no​ ​solution
that​ ​takes​ ​care​ ​of​ ​all​ ​of​ ​our​ ​needs​ ​at​ ​this​ ​time​ ​anyways,​ ​instead​ ​of​ ​trying​ ​to​ ​build​ ​everything​ ​and
being​ ​the​ ​best​ ​at​ ​all​ ​things​ ​talent​ ​acquisition,​ ​make​ ​it​ ​extremely​ ​easy​ ​to​ ​plug​ ​in​ ​other​ ​solutions
that​ ​can​ ​complement​ ​your​ ​core​ ​product.
​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Solutions​ ​like​ ​Lever​ ​do​ ​this​ ​extremely​ ​well,​ ​I've​ ​also​ ​had​ ​a​ ​lot​ ​of​ ​success​ ​when​ ​I
was​ ​an​ ​I-SIMS​ ​client.​ ​I​ ​like​ ​the​ ​strategy​ ​because​ ​it​ ​allows​ ​you​ ​to​ ​leverage​ ​the​ ​best​ ​solutions
under​ ​one​ ​hood,​ ​and​ ​create​ ​a​ ​truly​ ​integrated​ ​stack.​ ​The​ ​bottom​ ​line​ ​is,​ ​recruiters​ ​don't​ ​need
another​ ​system​ ​to​ ​login​ ​to,​ ​and​ ​so​ ​make​ ​sure​ ​your​ ​solution​ ​is​ ​easily​ ​integrated​ ​into​ ​the​ ​holistic
HR​ ​tech​ ​stack.​ ​Another​ ​aspect​ ​is​ ​pricing,​ ​and​ ​I​ ​mentioned​ ​this​ ​at​ ​HR​ ​Tech,​ ​you​ ​know​ ​the​ ​spoiler
alert​ ​here​ ​is​ ​talent​ ​acquisition​ ​departments​ ​don't​ ​tend​ ​to​ ​have​ ​these​ ​big​ ​budgets​ ​that​ ​you​ ​might
think​ ​we​ ​have.​ ​Most​ ​of​ ​us​ ​talent​ ​leaders​ ​are​ ​challenged​ ​to​ ​piece​ ​together​ ​a​ ​solution,​ ​and​ ​you're
in​ ​our​ ​tech​ ​stack​ ​with​ ​very​ ​limited​ ​budget​ ​and​ ​that​ ​best​ ​addresses​ ​the​ ​unique​ ​challenges​ ​that​ ​we
face.
​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Make​ ​sure​ ​that​ ​the​ ​solution​ ​is​ ​priced​ ​according​ ​to​ ​the​ ​ROI​ ​that​ ​customers​ ​like
myself​ ​can​ ​realistically​ ​realize.​ ​If​ ​you​ ​can't​ ​articulate​ ​or​ ​prove​ ​how​ ​your​ ​solution​ ​equates​ ​to
making​ ​hires,​ ​more​ ​hires,​ ​better​ ​hires,​ ​faster​ ​hires,​ ​it's​ ​difficult​ ​for​ ​me​ ​to​ ​see​ ​the​ ​value,​ ​and​ ​it's
probably​ ​more​ ​difficult​ ​for​ ​me​ ​to​ ​sell​ ​to​ ​my​ ​leadership.​ ​The​ ​bottom​ ​line​ ​is,​ ​you​ ​need​ ​to
understand​ ​how​ ​the​ ​recruiting​ ​function​ ​is​ ​measured,​ ​and​ ​the​ ​ultimate​ ​indicator​ ​for​ ​whether​ ​your
technology​ ​is​ ​helpful​ ​to​ ​me​ ​is​ ​whether​ ​it​ ​enhances​ ​the​ ​company's​ ​ability​ ​to​ ​hire.​ ​Take​ ​into
consideration​ ​where​ ​your​ ​solution​ ​fits​ ​into​ ​the​ ​value​ ​stream​ ​of​ ​the​ ​entire​ ​HR​ ​tech​ ​ecosystems.
​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​I'm​ ​probably​ ​not​ ​going​ ​to​ ​pay​ ​the​ ​same​ ​price​ ​tag​ ​for​ ​an​ ​app​ ​that​ ​helps​ ​me​ ​contact
passive​ ​candidates,​ ​for​ ​example,​ ​as​ ​I​ ​am​ ​for​ ​my​ ​entire​ ​ATS.​ ​Then​ ​lastly,​ ​my​ ​last​ ​piece​ ​of​ ​advice
is​ ​if​ ​you​ ​don't​ ​have​ ​practitioners​ ​like​ ​those​ ​listening​ ​to​ ​your​ ​show​ ​shaping​ ​your​ ​product​ ​and
advocating​ ​for​ ​you​ ​in​ ​their​ ​social​ ​circles,​ ​you​ ​know​ ​it's​ ​not​ ​very​ ​likely​ ​that​ ​you're​ ​going​ ​to​ ​be
successful.​ ​Make​ ​sure​ ​to​ ​get​ ​out​ ​there​ ​and​ ​get​ ​some​ ​key​ ​customers​ ​that​ ​can​ ​be​ ​your​ ​advocates.
Chris​ ​Russell:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Brand​ ​evangelists,​ ​I​ ​like​ ​it.​ ​You​ ​talked​ ​a​ ​little​ ​bit​ ​about​ ​diversity​ ​recruiting​ ​as
part​ ​of​ ​your​ ​strategy​ ​at​ ​Bizarre​ ​Voice​ ​there,​ ​Graham.​ ​Just​ ​talk​ ​about​ ​that​ ​briefly​ ​if​ ​you​ ​could,​ ​and
especially​ ​around​ ​what​ ​technologies​ ​you​ ​think​ ​can​ ​help​ ​companies​ ​diversify​ ​their​ ​workforce.

7. G.​ ​Pionkowski:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Yeah,​ ​absolutely.​ ​Well,​ ​one​ ​starting​ ​point​ ​can​ ​be​ ​to​ ​ensure​ ​that​ ​your​ ​job
descriptions​ ​are​ ​resonating​ ​with​ ​both​ ​male​ ​and​ ​female​ ​genders.​ ​I​ ​like​ ​Tech​ ​CO​ ​as​ ​a​ ​scalable
and​ ​user​ ​friendly​ ​solution​ ​to​ ​help​ ​you​ ​do​ ​this.​ ​Generally​ ​speaking,​ ​Tech​ ​CO's​ ​software​ ​coaches
you​ ​through​ ​writing​ ​a​ ​non-biased​ ​and​ ​just​ ​better​ ​overall​ ​job​ ​description​ ​by​ ​looking​ ​at​ ​specific
words​ ​you​ ​use​ ​or​ ​your​ ​format,​ ​in​ ​addition​ ​to​ ​a​ ​bunch​ ​of​ ​other​ ​aspects.​ ​This​ ​straightforward
technique​ ​alone​ ​can​ ​bring​ ​a​ ​lift​ ​to​ ​your​ ​gender​ ​diversity​ ​of​ ​your​ ​overall​ ​applicant​ ​pool,​ ​as​ ​well​ ​as
make​ ​your​ ​brand​ ​more​ ​appealing​ ​across​ ​the​ ​sexes.
​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​In​ ​fact,​ ​we​ ​did​ ​AB​ ​tests​ ​at​ ​my​ ​former,​ ​and​ ​the​ ​version​ ​of​ ​the​ ​job​ ​description​ ​that​ ​was
revised​ ​in​ ​alignment​ ​to​ ​Tech​ ​CO's​ ​guidance​ ​was​ ​more​ ​effective​ ​at​ ​receiving​ ​a​ ​more​ ​gender
diverse​ ​applicant​ ​pool​ ​in​ ​comparison​ ​to​ ​the​ ​job​ ​description​ ​that​ ​we​ ​had​ ​been​ ​using​ ​previously.
Not​ ​sure​ ​if​ ​they're​ ​still​ ​running​ ​free​ ​trials,​ ​but​ ​if​ ​so,​ ​your​ ​listeners​ ​should​ ​take​ ​it​ ​for​ ​a​ ​spin​ ​and​ ​see
if​ ​they​ ​experience​ ​the​ ​same​ ​results.​ ​I'd​ ​say​ ​personally,​ ​it​ ​was​ ​enlightening​ ​to​ ​see​ ​the​ ​gender
bias​ ​even​ ​in​ ​my​ ​own​ ​writing​ ​style,​ ​that​ ​I​ ​was​ ​just​ ​simply​ ​unaware​ ​of.
​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Once​ ​your​ ​job​ ​descriptions​ ​and​ ​advertisements​ ​are​ ​better​ ​aligned​ ​to​ ​the​ ​broader
spectrum​ ​of​ ​talent,​ ​you​ ​can​ ​focus​ ​on​ ​posting​ ​in​ ​places​ ​where​ ​target​ ​talent​ ​pools​ ​will​ ​view​ ​your
jobs,​ ​and​ ​you​ ​can​ ​spread​ ​your​ ​messaging​ ​through​ ​your​ ​sourcing​ ​activity.​ ​One​ ​place​ ​that's​ ​new
on​ ​my​ ​radar​ ​is​ ​called​ ​Jopwell,​ ​J-O-P-W-E-L-L.​ ​Their​ ​platform​ ​helps​ ​companies​ ​connect​ ​with
minorities,​ ​and​ ​they​ ​focus​ ​on​ ​creating​ ​the​ ​pipeline​ ​from​ ​under-represented​ ​communities,​ ​so​ ​you
can​ ​post​ ​your​ ​positions​ ​on​ ​their​ ​site,​ ​or​ ​search​ ​the​ ​candidate​ ​profiles​ ​that​ ​diverse​ ​job​ ​seekers
set​ ​up​ ​themselves.​ ​In​ ​terms​ ​of​ ​sourcing​ ​tools​ ​that​ ​you​ ​can​ ​add​ ​to​ ​your​ ​tech​ ​stack​ ​and​ ​do
targeted​ ​sourcing​ ​aimed​ ​at​ ​diverse​ ​candidates,​ ​I​ ​mentioned​ ​them​ ​previously,​ ​but​ ​take​ ​a​ ​look​ ​at
Intello.
​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​They're​ ​one​ ​of​ ​the​ ​more​ ​robust​ ​sourcing​ ​tools​ ​that's​ ​focused​ ​on​ ​creating​ ​a​ ​solution
for​ ​companies​ ​who​ ​want​ ​to​ ​better​ ​balance​ ​their​ ​talent​ ​pipelines.​ ​They've​ ​got​ ​search​ ​algorithms
and​ ​easy​ ​to​ ​use​ ​features​ ​that​ ​help​ ​you​ ​discover​ ​candidate​ ​pools​ ​based​ ​on​ ​their​ ​gender,
ethnicity,​ ​and​ ​even​ ​their​ ​veteran​ ​status,​ ​which​ ​was​ ​unique​ ​to​ ​me.​ ​I've​ ​been​ ​impressed​ ​by​ ​Intello,
and​ ​they've​ ​been​ ​in​ ​my​ ​toolkit​ ​for​ ​awhile​ ​specifically​ ​for​ ​talent​ ​searches​ ​that,​ ​again,​ ​require​ ​that
heavy​ ​lifting,​ ​and​ ​that​ ​you​ ​need​ ​that​ ​balanced​ ​pool​ ​of​ ​candidates.​ ​It's​ ​a​ ​great​ ​tool​ ​to​ ​use.
​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Then​ ​Chris,​ ​I​ ​want​ ​to​ ​give​ ​you​ ​a​ ​shout​ ​out.​ ​I​ ​also​ ​saw​ ​a​ ​recent​ ​post​ ​that​ ​you​ ​put​ ​on
LinkedIn​ ​with​ ​a​ ​list​ ​of​ ​online​ ​resume​ ​builder​ ​resources,​ ​and​ ​noticed​ ​one​ ​specifically​ ​aimed
toward​ ​military​ ​veterans.​ ​I​ ​think​ ​this​ ​is​ ​awesome,​ ​because​ ​I'm​ ​sure​ ​as​ ​you​ ​know,​ ​it's​ ​often
difficult​ ​for​ ​those​ ​of​ ​us​ ​who​ ​are​ ​searching​ ​for​ ​their​ ​skills,​ ​as​ ​well​ ​as​ ​those​ ​transitioning​ ​out​ ​of​ ​the
military​ ​into​ ​the​ ​civilian​ ​workforce​ ​to​ ​translate​ ​their​ ​skills​ ​on​ ​a​ ​resume​ ​or​ ​in​ ​an​ ​interview.
Sometimes​ ​the​ ​focus​ ​on​ ​diversity​ ​efforts​ ​is​ ​solely​ ​on​ ​gender​ ​and​ ​race,​ ​which​ ​is​ ​absolutely
important,​ ​but​ ​as​ ​recruiters,​ ​as​ ​TA​ ​leaders,​ ​let's​ ​think​ ​more​ ​broadly​ ​to​ ​include​ ​our​ ​veterans,​ ​to
include​ ​our​ ​workers​ ​with​ ​disabilities,​ ​to​ ​include​ ​both​ ​our​ ​emerging​ ​and​ ​aging​ ​workforces​ ​and​ ​so
on.
​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​I'm​ ​a​ ​big​ ​fan​ ​of​ ​the​ ​content​ ​and​ ​training​ ​through​ ​social​ ​talent.​ ​I​ ​know,​ ​Chris,​ ​you've
had​ ​the​ ​original​ ​sourcing​ ​ninja​ ​himself,​ ​Mr.​ ​Johnny​ ​Campbell,​ ​on​ ​a​ ​previous​ ​show.​ ​Yeah,​ ​myself
and​ ​many​ ​of​ ​my​ ​recruiters​ ​have​ ​taken​ ​their​ ​black​ ​belt​ ​training​ ​and​ ​found​ ​it​ ​incredibly​ ​helpful,
they've​ ​got​ ​a​ ​great​ ​set​ ​of​ ​learning​ ​modules​ ​on​ ​both​ ​diversity​ ​recruitment​ ​and​ ​military-specific
recruiting,​ ​and​ ​so​ ​I'd​ ​highly​ ​recommend​ ​to​ ​your​ ​listeners​ ​to​ ​check​ ​this​ ​out.​ ​One​ ​of​ ​the​ ​most
impactful​ ​and​ ​enlightening​ ​exercises​ ​is​ ​when​ ​you​ ​actually​ ​take​ ​an​ ​assessment​ ​to​ ​find​ ​out​ ​what

8. your​ ​own​ ​implicit​ ​bias​ ​is,​ ​because​ ​this​ ​awareness​ ​is​ ​key​ ​to​ ​making​ ​the​ ​changes​ ​needed​ ​to​ ​be
more​ ​mindful​ ​as​ ​you​ ​go​ ​through​ ​your​ ​day​ ​to​ ​day​ ​recruiting​ ​activities.​ ​Really​ ​great​ ​stuff,​ ​check
out​ ​social​ ​talent​ ​if​ ​you're​ ​not​ ​familiar.
Chris​ ​Russell:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Awesome,​ ​I​ ​love​ ​all​ ​the​ ​name​ ​dropping​ ​there​ ​as​ ​far​ ​as​ ​tools​ ​go,​ ​Graham,​ ​that
was​ ​a​ ​great​ ​list,​ ​appreciate​ ​that.
G.​ ​Pionkowski:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Awesome.
Chris​ ​Russell:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​A​ ​couple​ ​more​ ​questions​ ​for​ ​you,​ ​you​ ​know​ ​AI​ ​is​ ​another​ ​hot​ ​topic​ ​that's
getting​ ​a​ ​fair​ ​share​ ​of​ ​attention​ ​these​ ​days​ ​in​ ​the​ ​recruiting​ ​space.​ ​What's​ ​your​ ​perspective​ ​on​ ​it,
what​ ​kind​ ​of​ ​impact​ ​it's​ ​going​ ​to​ ​have​ ​on​ ​recruiters?
G.​ ​Pionkowski:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​All​ ​right,​ ​well-
Chris​ ​Russell:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Loaded​ ​question,​ ​yeah?
G.​ ​Pionkowski:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​[crosstalk​ ​00:26:01]​ ​got​ ​to​ ​face​ ​the​ ​reality,​ ​yeah,​ ​that​ ​recruiting​ ​has​ ​a​ ​number
of​ ​repetitive​ ​tasks,​ ​which​ ​makes​ ​it​ ​a​ ​prime​ ​target​ ​for​ ​the​ ​AI​ ​advancements.​ ​We've​ ​got​ ​to​ ​keep​ ​in
mind​ ​that​ ​automation​ ​isn't​ ​anything​ ​new,​ ​as​ ​we've​ ​seen​ ​it​ ​more​ ​and​ ​more​ ​in​ ​everything​ ​in​ ​the
world​ ​around​ ​us,​ ​and​ ​the​ ​shifting​ ​landscape​ ​to​ ​continue​ ​to​ ​take​ ​advantage​ ​of​ ​technology
advances​ ​to​ ​drive​ ​our​ ​productivity​ ​is​ ​not​ ​something​ ​that's​ ​going​ ​to​ ​slow​ ​down.​ ​Are​ ​intelligent
algorithms​ ​and​ ​machines​ ​going​ ​to​ ​necessarily​ ​take​ ​your​ ​job​ ​as​ ​a​ ​recruiter?​ ​You​ ​know,​ ​from​ ​my
perspective​ ​for​ ​now,​ ​the​ ​answer​ ​is​ ​no,​ ​you're​ ​not​ ​going​ ​to​ ​lose​ ​your​ ​job​ ​to​ ​machines,​ ​but
whether​ ​you​ ​notice​ ​it​ ​or​ ​not,​ ​there's​ ​likely​ ​areas​ ​of​ ​a​ ​recruiter's​ ​job​ ​that​ ​have​ ​already​ ​been
impacted.
​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Right​ ​now,​ ​the​ ​primary​ ​targets​ ​are​ ​these​ ​repetitive​ ​and​ ​routine​ ​tasks​ ​for​ ​recruiters,
like​ ​sifting​ ​through​ ​resume​ ​stacks​ ​and​ ​scheduling​ ​candidates,​ ​running​ ​online​ ​searches​ ​and​ ​so
on.​ ​I​ ​do​ ​think​ ​we​ ​will​ ​see​ ​the​ ​job​ ​of​ ​the​ ​recruiter​ ​continue​ ​to​ ​evolve​ ​as​ ​these​ ​traditionally
mundane​ ​tasks​ ​are​ ​automated​ ​through​ ​AI,​ ​machine​ ​learning​ ​and​ ​so​ ​on.​ ​This​ ​will​ ​mean​ ​that
there​ ​will​ ​be​ ​greater​ ​emphasis​ ​on​ ​soft​ ​skills,​ ​because​ ​the​ ​value​ ​the​ ​recruiter​ ​will​ ​bring​ ​to​ ​their
jobs​ ​is​ ​the​ ​ability​ ​to​ ​perform​ ​strategic​ ​and​ ​cognitive​ ​tasks​ ​that​ ​code​ ​and​ ​algorithms​ ​just​ ​can't​ ​do
as​ ​well​ ​as​ ​humans.
​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​My​ ​advice​ ​when​ ​recruiters​ ​are​ ​worried​ ​about​ ​their​ ​jobs​ ​is​ ​to​ ​get​ ​out​ ​there​ ​and​ ​step
up​ ​your​ ​game,​ ​you​ ​know​ ​become​ ​an​ ​expert​ ​at​ ​the​ ​higher​ ​level​ ​competencies​ ​of​ ​your​ ​job,​ ​like​ ​the
ability​ ​to​ ​make​ ​human​ ​connections,​ ​your​ ​sales​ ​and​ ​negotiating​ ​techniques,​ ​and​ ​maybe​ ​even
most​ ​importantly,​ ​understanding​ ​your​ ​business​ ​so​ ​that​ ​you​ ​can​ ​better​ ​do​ ​the​ ​job​ ​of​ ​a​ ​talent
advisor,​ ​to​ ​help​ ​your​ ​organization​ ​realize​ ​their​ ​human​ ​capital​ ​goals.​ ​At​ ​the​ ​core​ ​of​ ​recruiting,
there's​ ​a​ ​human​ ​to​ ​human​ ​interaction,​ ​so​ ​I​ ​don't​ ​see​ ​a​ ​future​ ​in​ ​which​ ​machines​ ​consume​ ​the
entire​ ​job​ ​category.​ ​Instead,​ ​advances​ ​in​ ​AI,​ ​machine​ ​learning,​ ​big​ ​data​ ​and​ ​these​ ​automation
activities​ ​should​ ​all​ ​be​ ​helping​ ​you​ ​excel​ ​as​ ​a​ ​recruiter,​ ​not​ ​eliminate​ ​the​ ​higher​ ​value​ ​you​ ​bring
to​ ​the​ ​job.

9. ​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​If​ ​anything,​ ​this​ ​is​ ​just​ ​my​ ​opinion,​ ​but​ ​AI​ ​and​ ​these​ ​technological​ ​advances​ ​should
make​ ​your​ ​job​ ​more​ ​enjoyable,​ ​so​ ​it​ ​should​ ​be​ ​great​ ​news​ ​for​ ​all​ ​the​ ​recruiters​ ​out​ ​there.
Chris​ ​Russell:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Definitely,​ ​well​ ​we​ ​shall​ ​see​ ​what​ ​happens.​ ​Last​ ​question​ ​for​ ​you,​ ​Graham,​ ​I
heard​ ​you​ ​shared​ ​your​ ​wish​ ​list​ ​during​ ​your​ ​panel​ ​at​ ​this​ ​year's​ ​HR​ ​Tech​ ​conference​ ​in​ ​Vegas,
so​ ​what​ ​is​ ​on​ ​your​ ​Christmas​ ​wish​ ​list​ ​going​ ​into​ ​2018?
G.​ ​Pionkowski:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Yeah,​ ​well​ ​here's​ ​a​ ​couple​ ​other​ ​cool​ ​technologies​ ​for​ ​you.​ ​I​ ​like​ ​Next​ ​Wave
Hire​ ​for​ ​employer​ ​branding.​ ​Next​ ​Wave​ ​provides​ ​an​ ​authentic​ ​voice​ ​for​ ​your​ ​employees​ ​to​ ​the
external​ ​market​ ​through​ ​employee​ ​generated​ ​content​ ​and​ ​a​ ​user​ ​friendly​ ​and​ ​scalable​ ​solution.
It's​ ​been​ ​my​ ​experience​ ​that​ ​it's​ ​difficult​ ​to​ ​keep​ ​up​ ​with​ ​updated​ ​employee​ ​interviews​ ​and
testimonials​ ​on​ ​your​ ​career​ ​site,​ ​and​ ​that​ ​you​ ​can​ ​leverage​ ​across​ ​your​ ​other​ ​media​ ​outlets.​ ​I
really​ ​like​ ​that​ ​Next​ ​Wave's​ ​solution​ ​helps​ ​to​ ​alleviate​ ​those​ ​pain​ ​points,​ ​so​ ​that​ ​you​ ​can
leverage​ ​that​ ​power​ ​of​ ​the​ ​employee​ ​advocacy​ ​in​ ​a​ ​more​ ​manageable​ ​way,​ ​so​ ​they​ ​definitely
make​ ​the​ ​list.
​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​I​ ​also​ ​like​ ​Teamable.​ ​You​ ​mentioned​ ​sourcing​ ​engines,​ ​this​ ​is​ ​kind​ ​of​ ​the
supercharger​ ​you​ ​can​ ​put​ ​on​ ​the​ ​employee​ ​referral​ ​program,​ ​if​ ​you​ ​will.​ ​Teamable​ ​allows​ ​you​ ​to
tap​ ​into​ ​current​ ​employee​ ​networks​ ​by​ ​matching​ ​profiles​ ​to​ ​jobs​ ​for​ ​you,​ ​and​ ​going​ ​back​ ​to​ ​the
topic​ ​earlier,​ ​this​ ​solution​ ​can​ ​also​ ​be​ ​a​ ​great​ ​strategy​ ​for​ ​enhancing​ ​your​ ​diversity​ ​recruiting
efforts​ ​by​ ​leveraging​ ​the​ ​networks​ ​of​ ​your​ ​existing​ ​diverse​ ​employee​ ​base.​ ​It​ ​appears​ ​to​ ​be​ ​easy
to​ ​implement​ ​as​ ​a​ ​standalone​ ​login​ ​for​ ​your​ ​employees,​ ​if​ ​that's​ ​the​ ​route​ ​you​ ​choose​ ​to​ ​go,​ ​or
you​ ​can​ ​set​ ​up​ ​as​ ​part​ ​of​ ​a​ ​more​ ​integrated​ ​tech​ ​stack,​ ​with​ ​Turnkey​ ​integrations​ ​available​ ​with
many​ ​of​ ​the​ ​ATS​ ​vendors​ ​like​ ​I-SIMS,​ ​Lever,​ ​and​ ​others.
​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​They​ ​make​ ​the​ ​list​ ​as​ ​well,​ ​and​ ​I​ ​guess​ ​the​ ​final​ ​one​ ​on​ ​my​ ​list,​ ​and​ ​it's​ ​been​ ​there
for​ ​a​ ​few​ ​years,​ ​I​ ​really​ ​like​ ​Hacker​ ​Rank.​ ​Traditionally​ ​I've​ ​done​ ​a​ ​lot​ ​of​ ​engineering​ ​and​ ​R​ ​and
D​ ​recruitment,​ ​and​ ​Hacker​ ​Rank​ ​is​ ​a​ ​way​ ​to​ ​enhance​ ​the​ ​engineering​ ​skills​ ​assessment​ ​and
competency,​ ​and​ ​just​ ​the​ ​overall​ ​applicant​ ​experience.​ ​Their​ ​tool​ ​helps​ ​assess​ ​your​ ​specific
technical​ ​bar​ ​across​ ​your​ ​engineering​ ​roles,​ ​and​ ​they've​ ​got​ ​an​ ​entire​ ​library​ ​of​ ​pre-built​ ​coding
challenges​ ​for​ ​assessing​ ​various​ ​language​ ​proficiencies​ ​and​ ​problem​ ​solving​ ​ability.​ ​If​ ​they​ ​don't
have​ ​a​ ​pre-built​ ​challenge​ ​that​ ​meets​ ​your​ ​specific​ ​needs,​ ​you​ ​know​ ​you​ ​can​ ​easily​ ​customize
your​ ​own.
​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​I​ ​think​ ​it​ ​enhances​ ​the​ ​candidate​ ​experience​ ​for​ ​technical​ ​talent​ ​through​ ​the​ ​use​ ​of
these​ ​online​ ​coding​ ​challenges,​ ​as​ ​well​ ​as​ ​helps​ ​make​ ​engineering​ ​hiring​ ​more​ ​scalable​ ​from​ ​an
operations​ ​perspective.​ ​Pretty​ ​simply,​ ​and​ ​pretty​ ​modest​ ​list​ ​there,​ ​but​ ​I​ ​like​ ​Hacker​ ​Rank,​ ​I​ ​like
Teamable,​ ​I​ ​like​ ​Next​ ​Wave​ ​Hire,​ ​they're​ ​great​ ​tools​ ​to​ ​add​ ​to​ ​your​ ​toolkit.
Chris​ ​Russell:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Nice,​ ​well​ ​this​ ​should​ ​be​ ​a​ ​fun​ ​year​ ​going​ ​into​ ​next​ ​year,​ ​and​ ​we'll​ ​see​ ​what
happens.​ ​Graham​ ​Pionkowski,​ ​thank​ ​you​ ​very​ ​much​ ​for​ ​joining​ ​me,​ ​let's​ ​get​ ​you​ ​back​ ​here​ ​in​ ​six
months.
G.​ ​Pionkowski:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Thanks​ ​so​ ​much​ ​Chris,​ ​it​ ​was​ ​such​ ​a​ ​pleasure​ ​to​ ​be​ ​on​ ​your​ ​show.

10. Chris​ ​Russell:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Awesome.​ ​All​ ​right,​ ​well​ ​that​ ​will​ ​do​ ​it​ ​for​ ​this​ ​edition​ ​of​ ​the​ ​Rec​ ​Tech​ ​podcast,
thanks​ ​again​ ​to​ ​our​ ​sponsor.​ ​All​ ​right,​ ​check​ ​out​ ​jobfairing.com​ ​for​ ​your​ ​next​ ​hiring​ ​event.​ ​You
can​ ​subscribe​ ​to​ ​this​ ​show​ ​via​ ​iTunes,​ ​Google​ ​Play,​ ​Soundcloud​ ​and​ ​Stitcher​ ​radio.​ ​Hey,​ ​if​ ​you
like​ ​the​ ​show,​ ​please​ ​leave​ ​a​ ​review​ ​on​ ​your​ ​channel​ ​of​ ​choice,​ ​I'd​ ​love​ ​to​ ​see​ ​your​ ​feedback,​ ​or
mention​ ​us​ ​on​ ​social​ ​media​ ​with​ ​the​ ​hashtag​ ​#RecTech.​ ​Follow​ ​me​ ​on​ ​Twitter​ ​@ChrisRussell,
or​ ​visit​ ​rectechindia.com,​ ​there​ ​you​ ​can​ ​find​ ​the​ ​audio​ ​and​ ​links​ ​for​ ​the​ ​show​ ​on​ ​our​ ​blog.​ ​We'll
link​ ​to​ ​Graham's​ ​bio​ ​on​ ​LinkedIn​ ​there.​ ​Just​ ​a​ ​reminder,​ ​I'm​ ​a​ ​consultant​ ​that​ ​helps​ ​both​ ​HR​ ​tech
firms​ ​and​ ​employers​ ​get​ ​more​ ​clients​ ​or​ ​candidates.​ ​On​ ​the​ ​next​ ​show,​ ​we'll​ ​be​ ​speaking​ ​with
Scott​ ​Sherman,​ ​director​ ​of​ ​TA​ ​at​ ​[Sodexo​ ​00:32:33].​ ​Thanks​ ​for​ ​listening​ ​everyone,​ ​that's​ ​a
wrap.
​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Good​ ​job,​ ​man.
G.​ ​Pionkowski:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​Awesome.
Chris​ ​Russell:​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​​ ​That​ ​was​ ​great.