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AppSec USA 2014 
Denver, Colorado 
AppSec Survey 2.0: Fine-Tuning an 
AppSec Training Program Based on 
Data 
John B. Dickson, CISSP 
@johnbdickson 
September 18, 2014
Introduction 
John 
B. 
Dickson, 
CISSP 
• Application Security Enthusiast 
• Ex-AF Guy & ISSA Distinguished Fellow 
• Serial Entrepreneur & MBA Type 
• Dad
When Not Thinking about AppSec… 
I am Snake Hunting on a Ranch in South Texas
Snake Hunting Essentials 
Cooler 
Hat 
Cool 
Hat 
Snake 
Guards 
Common 
Gardening 
Tools 
Guy 
who 
has 
a 
machete 
and 
who 
is 
actually 
good 
at 
“catching” 
snakes 
Machete 
OWASP 
AppSec 
2011 
t-­‐shirt 
© Copyright 2014 Denim Group - All Rights Reserved
• Background 
• Premise 
• AppSec 
Study 
1.0 
Results 
– 
What 
We 
Learned 
• Approach 
and 
Survey 
ParKcipants 
• Key 
Results 
• What 
We 
Can 
Put 
To 
Work 
• Conclusions 
and 
QuesKons 
& 
Answers 
Overview
AppSec Study 1.0 Results 
• Things 
we 
Knew 
Last 
Year 
• Key 
Findings 
of 
Last 
Year’s 
Study 
• AddiKonal 
Stuff 
We 
Learned 
Along 
the 
Way 
• Development 
training 
is 
hard 
• Results 
are 
rarely 
measured 
for 
ROI 
• Training 
is 
typically 
part 
of 
any 
AppSec 
program
AppSec Study 1.0 Results 
• Things 
we 
Knew 
Last 
Year 
• Key 
Findings 
of 
Last 
Year’s 
Study 
• AddiKonal 
Stuff 
We 
Learned 
Long 
the 
Way 
• 25% 
retenKon 
aXer 
training 
• QA 
did 
worse 
than 
architects 
and 
soXware 
developers 
• Respondents 
answered 
basic 
awareness 
quesKons 
but 
not 
coding 
pracKces
• Things 
we 
Knew 
Last 
Year 
• Key 
Findings 
of 
Last 
Year’s 
Study 
• AddiConal 
Stuff 
We 
Learned 
Long 
the 
Way 
• SoXware 
developers 
learn 
differently 
than 
companies 
teach 
• IncenKves 
ma[er 
• Surveys 
are 
hard! 
AppSec Study 1.0 Results
Overview of 2014 “2.0” Study 
• 600 
respondents 
• Represents 
mulKple 
industries 
• Asked 
the 
same 
applicaKon 
security 
quesKons 
as 
2013 
survey 
• Expanded 
to 
include 
training 
method 
quesKons 
• No 
“before” 
and 
“aXer” 
analysis 
• No 
classroom 
training 
opportuniKes 
• Used 
more 
social 
media 
• Data 
collecKon 
ongoing
Approach and Survey Participants 
Sample 
QuesCons 
QuesKons 
that 
tested 
basic 
knowledge 
of 
applicaKon 
security: 
• ApplicaKon 
security 
is 
best 
defined 
as… 
• Threat 
Modeling 
is… 
• Input 
ValidaKon 
is…
Approach and Survey Participants 
Sample 
QuesCons 
QuesKons 
that 
tested 
understanding 
of 
defensive 
coding: 
• Marking 
a 
cookie 
as 
“secure” 
will… 
• Which 
of 
the 
following 
will 
help 
protect 
against 
XSS… 
• Which 
of 
the 
following 
is 
NOT 
an 
example 
of 
good 
session 
policy…
Approach and Survey Participants 
Delivery 
Means 
• Direct 
Delivery 
of 
Customized 
Links 
via 
E-­‐mail 
• Survey 
Monkey 
paid 
• Social 
Media 
– Facebook 
– Linkedin 
Targets 
• SoXware 
Developers 
• Architects 
• Quality 
Assurance
Demographic Questions Asked 
• What 
is 
your 
primary 
job 
funcKon? 
• What 
is 
your 
company's 
size? 
• How 
many 
years 
of 
soXware 
development 
experience 
do 
you 
have? 
• How 
much 
previous 
applicaKon 
security 
training 
have 
you 
received?
2014 Study Demographics 
How 
many 
years 
of 
soMware 
development 
experience 
do 
you 
Less 
than 
a 
Year 
18% 
1-­‐2 
Years 
9% 
2-­‐4 
Years 
10% 
4-­‐7 
Years 
13% 
More 
than 
12 
7-­‐12 
Years 
16% 
Years 
34% 
have?
2014 Study Demographics 
What 
is 
your 
primary 
job 
Other 
35% 
Quality 
Assurance 
6% 
SoXware 
Developer 
53% 
funcCon? 
Architect 
6%
2014 Study Demographics 
What 
is 
your 
company 
size? 
8% 
8% 
29% 
8% 
10% 
37% 
1-­‐24 
Employees 
25-­‐99 
Employees 
100-­‐499 
Employees 
500-­‐2499 
Employees 
2500-­‐9999 
Employees 
10,000 
or 
more 
Employees
2014 Study Demographics 
How 
much 
previous 
applicaCon 
security 
training 
experience 
have 
None 
31% 
Less 
than 
a 
Day 
19% 
More 
than 
3 
At 
least 
1 
day, 
but 
less 
than 
2 
days 
17% 
At 
least 
2 
days, 
but 
less 
than 
3 
days 
8% 
days 
25% 
you 
received?
Key Survey Results 
• Data 
shows 
soXware 
developers 
posiKvely 
answer 
quesKons 
about 
applicaKon 
security 
56% 
of 
the 
Kme 
• 2013 
Denim 
Group 
study 
results: 
58% 
• 2014 
Aspect 
Study: 
60%
Change Implementation 
Did 
your 
organizaCon 
implement 
any 
SDLC 
or 
process 
improvement 
steps 
to 
formalize 
concepts 
learned 
in 
training? 
Yes 
33% 
No 
25% 
I 
don't 
know 
42%
Types of Training Received 
Types 
of 
Training 
Received 
0 
50 
100 
150 
200 
250 
Other 
Wri[en 
Materials 
1-­‐on-­‐1 
Coaching 
Webinars 
or 
Videos 
Websites 
Crowdsourcing 
Sites 
Developer 
E-­‐mail 
Lists 
or 
RSS 
feeds 
Social 
Learning 
Plaqorms 
Social 
Media 
e-­‐Learning, 
CBT 
Instructor-­‐Led 
PresentaKons
E-Learning & Instructor-Led Training 
Types 
of 
Training 
Received 
0 
100 
200 
300 
Other 
Wri[en 
Materials 
1-­‐on-­‐1 
Coaching 
Webinars 
or 
Videos 
Websites 
Crowdsourcing 
Sites 
E-­‐Learning 
& 
Instructor-­‐led 
Training 
are 
SKll 
the 
Primary 
ApplicaKon 
Security 
Training 
Approach 
Developer 
E-­‐mail 
Lists 
or 
RSS 
feeds 
Social 
Learning 
Plaqorms 
Social 
Media 
e-­‐Learning, 
CBT 
Instructor-­‐Led 
PresentaKons
Perceived Effectiveness of Training 
0 
50 
100 
150 
200 
250 
300 
350 
400 
450 
500 
Wri[en 
Materials 
1-­‐on-­‐1 
Coaching 
Webinars 
or 
Videos 
Websites 
Crowdsourcing 
Sites 
Developer 
E-­‐mail 
Lists 
or 
RSS 
feeds 
Social 
Learning 
Plaqorms 
Social 
Media 
e-­‐Learning, 
CBT 
Instructor-­‐Led 
PresentaKons 
1: 
Not 
EffecKve 
2: 
Somewhat 
EffecKve 
3: 
Very 
EffecKve
Question Types 
Respondents 
Fared 
Far 
Worse 
on 
QuesKons 
Involving 
Secure 
Coding 
PracKces 
versus 
ApplicaKon 
Security 
Awareness 
QuesKons 
41% 
59% 
0% 
10% 
20% 
30% 
40% 
50% 
60% 
70% 
Awareness 
QuesKons 
PrescripKve 
QuesKons 
% 
of 
QuesKons 
Answered 
Correctly
Pass Rate by Job Function 
Quality 
Assurance 
respondents 
Fared 
50% 
worse 
than 
soXware 
developers 
and 
architects 
Average 
Pass 
Rate 
25% 
20% 
15% 
10% 
5% 
0% 
Other 
SoXware 
Developer 
Quality 
Assurance 
Architect 
70% 
or 
more 
quesKons 
answered 
correctly
Pass Rate by Previous Training 
The 
Pass 
Rate 
More 
Than 
Doubled 
for 
Respondents 
Who 
Had 
More 
Than 
Three 
Days 
ApplicaKon 
Security 
Training 
Average 
Pass 
Rate 
30% 
25% 
20% 
15% 
10% 
5% 
0% 
Less 
than 
a 
Day 
or 
None 
At 
least 
1 
day, 
but 
less 
than 
3 
days 
More 
than 
3 
days 
70% 
or 
more 
correct
Pass Rate by Job Function: Security 
Respondents 
that 
worked 
for 
security 
organizaKons 
or 
vendors 
DID 
fare 
well 
compared 
to 
other 
respondents 
Average 
Pass 
Rate 
90% 
80% 
70% 
60% 
50% 
40% 
30% 
20% 
10% 
0% 
Security-­‐Related 
Everyone 
Else 
70% 
or 
more 
quesKons 
answered 
correctly
What we Can Put to Work 
• Refresher 
training 
is 
criCcal 
• Even 
with 
3+ 
days 
of 
appsec 
training, 
most 
respondents 
did 
not 
have 
a 
“passing” 
grade 
of 
70% 
• Like 
any 
other 
training 
topic, 
leX 
unreinforced, 
what 
learned 
will 
be 
forgo[en 
over 
Kme 
• ParKcularly 
given 
the 
lack 
of 
SDLC 
changes 
• Likely 
an 
area 
for 
addiKonal 
study 
for 
2015 
appsec 
training 
study
What we Can Put to Work 
• Training 
without 
SDLC 
changes 
likely 
will 
produce 
the 
same 
results 
• 33% 
of 
the 
respondents 
said 
their 
organizaKon 
implemented 
some 
security 
SDLC 
improvements 
• 67% 
either 
answered 
“no” 
or 
“don’t 
know” 
• OrganizaKons 
cannot 
rely 
exclusively 
on 
developers 
retenKon 
and 
iniKaKve 
to 
produce 
long-­‐term 
decline 
in 
applicaKon 
vulnerabiliKes
What we Can Put to Work 
• Augment 
QA 
with 
Focused 
AppSec 
Training 
• QA 
has 
consistently 
responded 
poorly 
relaKve 
to 
developers 
and 
architects 
• Many 
organizaKon 
put 
their 
most 
junior 
developers 
in 
QA 
to 
start 
• QA 
is 
where 
appsec 
“lives” 
in 
many 
organizaKons 
• OrganizaKons 
might 
considering 
“doubling 
down” 
on 
appsec 
training 
for 
QA 
staff 
to 
compensate 
for 
this 
fact
What we Can Put to Work 
• IncenCves 
Ma`er 
When 
Working 
with 
Developers 
• We 
used 
incenKves 
throughout 
the 
study 
to 
collect 
responses 
-­‐ 
#Success! 
• SoXware 
developers 
have 
infinite 
reasons 
to 
ignore 
engagement 
by 
the 
AppSec 
team 
• Rewards 
help 
nudge 
soXware 
developers
What we Can Put to Work 
• Training 
programs 
must 
be 
tailored 
to 
be 
effecCve 
• Formal 
programs 
like 
classroom 
training 
and 
e-­‐ 
Learning 
are 
sKll 
the 
bread 
and 
bu[er 
of 
appsec 
training 
programs 
• ConsumpKon 
rates 
of 
e-­‐Learning 
sKll 
abysmal 
without 
incenKves 
or 
internal 
markeKng 
• Add 
newer 
ways 
of 
learning 
to 
reinforce 
certain 
key 
points 
and 
to 
serve 
AppSec 
corner 
cases 
• Leverage 
current 
events 
to 
reinforce 
other 
key 
points
Conclusions 
• Data 
shows 
soXware 
developers 
posiKvely 
answer 
quesKons 
about 
applicaKon 
security 
56% 
of 
the 
Kme 
• Data-­‐driven 
applicaKon 
security 
programs 
will 
likely 
be 
more 
successful 
and 
chart 
improvement 
• SophisKcated 
security 
managers 
use 
incenKves 
and 
tailor 
programs 
to 
improve 
appsec 
IQ
Questions and Answers 
White 
Paper? 
MenCon 
it 
on 
Twi`er 
John 
B. 
Dickson, 
CISSP 
@johnbdickson 
#appsecstudy

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AppSec Survey 2.0 Fine-Tuning an AppSec Training Program Based on Data

  • 1. AppSec USA 2014 Denver, Colorado AppSec Survey 2.0: Fine-Tuning an AppSec Training Program Based on Data John B. Dickson, CISSP @johnbdickson September 18, 2014
  • 2. Introduction John B. Dickson, CISSP • Application Security Enthusiast • Ex-AF Guy & ISSA Distinguished Fellow • Serial Entrepreneur & MBA Type • Dad
  • 3. When Not Thinking about AppSec… I am Snake Hunting on a Ranch in South Texas
  • 4. Snake Hunting Essentials Cooler Hat Cool Hat Snake Guards Common Gardening Tools Guy who has a machete and who is actually good at “catching” snakes Machete OWASP AppSec 2011 t-­‐shirt © Copyright 2014 Denim Group - All Rights Reserved
  • 5. • Background • Premise • AppSec Study 1.0 Results – What We Learned • Approach and Survey ParKcipants • Key Results • What We Can Put To Work • Conclusions and QuesKons & Answers Overview
  • 6. AppSec Study 1.0 Results • Things we Knew Last Year • Key Findings of Last Year’s Study • AddiKonal Stuff We Learned Along the Way • Development training is hard • Results are rarely measured for ROI • Training is typically part of any AppSec program
  • 7. AppSec Study 1.0 Results • Things we Knew Last Year • Key Findings of Last Year’s Study • AddiKonal Stuff We Learned Long the Way • 25% retenKon aXer training • QA did worse than architects and soXware developers • Respondents answered basic awareness quesKons but not coding pracKces
  • 8. • Things we Knew Last Year • Key Findings of Last Year’s Study • AddiConal Stuff We Learned Long the Way • SoXware developers learn differently than companies teach • IncenKves ma[er • Surveys are hard! AppSec Study 1.0 Results
  • 9. Overview of 2014 “2.0” Study • 600 respondents • Represents mulKple industries • Asked the same applicaKon security quesKons as 2013 survey • Expanded to include training method quesKons • No “before” and “aXer” analysis • No classroom training opportuniKes • Used more social media • Data collecKon ongoing
  • 10. Approach and Survey Participants Sample QuesCons QuesKons that tested basic knowledge of applicaKon security: • ApplicaKon security is best defined as… • Threat Modeling is… • Input ValidaKon is…
  • 11. Approach and Survey Participants Sample QuesCons QuesKons that tested understanding of defensive coding: • Marking a cookie as “secure” will… • Which of the following will help protect against XSS… • Which of the following is NOT an example of good session policy…
  • 12. Approach and Survey Participants Delivery Means • Direct Delivery of Customized Links via E-­‐mail • Survey Monkey paid • Social Media – Facebook – Linkedin Targets • SoXware Developers • Architects • Quality Assurance
  • 13. Demographic Questions Asked • What is your primary job funcKon? • What is your company's size? • How many years of soXware development experience do you have? • How much previous applicaKon security training have you received?
  • 14. 2014 Study Demographics How many years of soMware development experience do you Less than a Year 18% 1-­‐2 Years 9% 2-­‐4 Years 10% 4-­‐7 Years 13% More than 12 7-­‐12 Years 16% Years 34% have?
  • 15. 2014 Study Demographics What is your primary job Other 35% Quality Assurance 6% SoXware Developer 53% funcCon? Architect 6%
  • 16. 2014 Study Demographics What is your company size? 8% 8% 29% 8% 10% 37% 1-­‐24 Employees 25-­‐99 Employees 100-­‐499 Employees 500-­‐2499 Employees 2500-­‐9999 Employees 10,000 or more Employees
  • 17. 2014 Study Demographics How much previous applicaCon security training experience have None 31% Less than a Day 19% More than 3 At least 1 day, but less than 2 days 17% At least 2 days, but less than 3 days 8% days 25% you received?
  • 18. Key Survey Results • Data shows soXware developers posiKvely answer quesKons about applicaKon security 56% of the Kme • 2013 Denim Group study results: 58% • 2014 Aspect Study: 60%
  • 19. Change Implementation Did your organizaCon implement any SDLC or process improvement steps to formalize concepts learned in training? Yes 33% No 25% I don't know 42%
  • 20. Types of Training Received Types of Training Received 0 50 100 150 200 250 Other Wri[en Materials 1-­‐on-­‐1 Coaching Webinars or Videos Websites Crowdsourcing Sites Developer E-­‐mail Lists or RSS feeds Social Learning Plaqorms Social Media e-­‐Learning, CBT Instructor-­‐Led PresentaKons
  • 21. E-Learning & Instructor-Led Training Types of Training Received 0 100 200 300 Other Wri[en Materials 1-­‐on-­‐1 Coaching Webinars or Videos Websites Crowdsourcing Sites E-­‐Learning & Instructor-­‐led Training are SKll the Primary ApplicaKon Security Training Approach Developer E-­‐mail Lists or RSS feeds Social Learning Plaqorms Social Media e-­‐Learning, CBT Instructor-­‐Led PresentaKons
  • 22. Perceived Effectiveness of Training 0 50 100 150 200 250 300 350 400 450 500 Wri[en Materials 1-­‐on-­‐1 Coaching Webinars or Videos Websites Crowdsourcing Sites Developer E-­‐mail Lists or RSS feeds Social Learning Plaqorms Social Media e-­‐Learning, CBT Instructor-­‐Led PresentaKons 1: Not EffecKve 2: Somewhat EffecKve 3: Very EffecKve
  • 23. Question Types Respondents Fared Far Worse on QuesKons Involving Secure Coding PracKces versus ApplicaKon Security Awareness QuesKons 41% 59% 0% 10% 20% 30% 40% 50% 60% 70% Awareness QuesKons PrescripKve QuesKons % of QuesKons Answered Correctly
  • 24. Pass Rate by Job Function Quality Assurance respondents Fared 50% worse than soXware developers and architects Average Pass Rate 25% 20% 15% 10% 5% 0% Other SoXware Developer Quality Assurance Architect 70% or more quesKons answered correctly
  • 25. Pass Rate by Previous Training The Pass Rate More Than Doubled for Respondents Who Had More Than Three Days ApplicaKon Security Training Average Pass Rate 30% 25% 20% 15% 10% 5% 0% Less than a Day or None At least 1 day, but less than 3 days More than 3 days 70% or more correct
  • 26. Pass Rate by Job Function: Security Respondents that worked for security organizaKons or vendors DID fare well compared to other respondents Average Pass Rate 90% 80% 70% 60% 50% 40% 30% 20% 10% 0% Security-­‐Related Everyone Else 70% or more quesKons answered correctly
  • 27. What we Can Put to Work • Refresher training is criCcal • Even with 3+ days of appsec training, most respondents did not have a “passing” grade of 70% • Like any other training topic, leX unreinforced, what learned will be forgo[en over Kme • ParKcularly given the lack of SDLC changes • Likely an area for addiKonal study for 2015 appsec training study
  • 28. What we Can Put to Work • Training without SDLC changes likely will produce the same results • 33% of the respondents said their organizaKon implemented some security SDLC improvements • 67% either answered “no” or “don’t know” • OrganizaKons cannot rely exclusively on developers retenKon and iniKaKve to produce long-­‐term decline in applicaKon vulnerabiliKes
  • 29. What we Can Put to Work • Augment QA with Focused AppSec Training • QA has consistently responded poorly relaKve to developers and architects • Many organizaKon put their most junior developers in QA to start • QA is where appsec “lives” in many organizaKons • OrganizaKons might considering “doubling down” on appsec training for QA staff to compensate for this fact
  • 30. What we Can Put to Work • IncenCves Ma`er When Working with Developers • We used incenKves throughout the study to collect responses -­‐ #Success! • SoXware developers have infinite reasons to ignore engagement by the AppSec team • Rewards help nudge soXware developers
  • 31. What we Can Put to Work • Training programs must be tailored to be effecCve • Formal programs like classroom training and e-­‐ Learning are sKll the bread and bu[er of appsec training programs • ConsumpKon rates of e-­‐Learning sKll abysmal without incenKves or internal markeKng • Add newer ways of learning to reinforce certain key points and to serve AppSec corner cases • Leverage current events to reinforce other key points
  • 32. Conclusions • Data shows soXware developers posiKvely answer quesKons about applicaKon security 56% of the Kme • Data-­‐driven applicaKon security programs will likely be more successful and chart improvement • SophisKcated security managers use incenKves and tailor programs to improve appsec IQ
  • 33. Questions and Answers White Paper? MenCon it on Twi`er John B. Dickson, CISSP @johnbdickson #appsecstudy