combatreform.org/m113combat.htm

1. LAV-III vs M113A3
D.E. Tooker
LTC, ARMOR
USAR

2. Purpose
Compare proposed LAV-III Stryker to
existing M113A3 Gavins to determine which
vehicle is the better Light Armored Vehicle
for Army Interim Brigade Combat Team
(IBCT) and other contingency force unit
mission accomplishment, troop protection and
value for expenditure.

3. Outline
• Specifications JCS Standard
• Characteristics LAV-III Stryker
• Characteristics M113A3 Gavin
• Additional Information
• Summary
• Conclusion

4. Specifications
Set By CJCS 1998
• Must be C-130 deliverable in combat
configuration to unimproved strips
• Must carry infantry squad with equipment
• Be able to cross-country, swim and ford
• Modifiable to carry Armored Gun System,
(AGS) or similar weaponry
• Hull and running gear ballistic shielded
against 12.7mm HMGs
• Chassis/frame for multiple adaptations

5. LAV-III Characteristics
artist’s conception (With 25mm AGS 21+ tons)
• Added propulsion unit (x2) not on LAV-III
Stryker vehicles because it reduces interior
space via unsafe internal fuel tank. Vehicle
cannot swim without it.

6. LAV Characteristics
artist’s idealized conception swimming

7. LAV Characteristics
actual LAV-III with AGS swimming attempt

8. LAV Characteristics
actual LAV-III with AGS swimming attempt

9. LAV-III Stryker Characteristics
Actual vehicle w/o AGS (no prop devices)
19-21 tons
Weak .50 cal HMG on slow
traversing remotely aimed
pedestal called a “Remote
Weapon System” (RWS)
Fuel tanks occupy space
where swim props/rudders
would have been

10. LAV-III Stryker Characteristics
Actual vehicle to be C-130 air configured with
small tires and no turret requires excess gear flown on another C-130: is
it ready to fight like this? Consider the spare tire.
UNSAFE: No side space
for Soldiers to exit
aircraft in crash-landing;
will have to crawl over a
pile of strapped-on junk
like the spare tire, one-at-
a-time

11. LAV-III MGS 105mm gun
Characteristics
Actual heavily burdened 21+ ton vehicle stuck (without
spare tire); high ground pressures sink tires into mud

12. M93 Fox 6x6 LAV
Characteristics
All Wheeled armored cars fail standard
slope tests

13. LAV type vehicle
Characteristics
Actual vehicle tire change.
Where is that spare? How many can we
reasonably carry on an armored car?

14. Wheeled LAVs in Combat

15. Wheeled LAVs in MOUT
environment
Channelized along easy-to-ambush roads/paths/streets

16. Grenadan wheeled LAV
Burning Tires = Mobility Kill

17. Wheeled AGS Desert failure
note tires not robust against bullets/shrapnel; too soft for
rocky and sandy desert use

18. BRDM note “soft” tires =
Mobility kill

19. Mine Damage
Wheeled Vehicle type unknown; note hole from mine blast;
easy to predict where wheeled vehicles will go and lay mines
Shoulder patch is Russian

20. Wheeled AGS~
one shot and it’s all over: top-heavy and prone to turn-overs;
this vehicle caught on fire afterwards, killing everyone trapped
inside

21. LAV-III Stryker Characteristics
Summary
• Each situation in the acquisition test, used a
differently configured LAV-III. No single
vehicle meets all IBCT requirements.
• Covering vehicle with applique’ or reactive
armor, makes it too large, too heavy to fit a C-
130. Even without, vehicle weight reduces fuel
load so C-130 can only fly it less than 200
miles.
• It cannot turn within its own length.
• Current weak remote weapon system must be

22. M113A3 Gavin Characteristics
Artist conception and actual stretched vehicle
(15 tons) with 25mm AGS

23. M113A1/2 Gavin Characteristics
Artist conception ~ Standard vehicle (11 tons)

24. M113A3 Gavin mods

25. M113A3 Band Track
Permits greater road speeds (up to 55 MPH; same as
wheels), longer track life, less noise and less road
damage.
•Band track for 12 ton vehicle tested ‘97 - (2908 Mi)
• Band track for 15 ton vehicle tested ‘98
• Acoustic, IR, Projectile & mine blast tested ‘98 -
Camp Grayling, MI
•Band track development for 25 ton vehicle ongoing

26. M113A3 Band Track

27. M113A3 Band Track
alt-design

28. M113A2 with Band Track

29. Bradley Fighting Vehicle ~
25-33 ton mod
Band Track
New Track Technologies

30. M113A1 Gavin Characteristics
Chinook max out at 12.5 tons; can lift a Gavin
Air Assault Capable

31. M113A1 Gavin Characteristics
CH-47D Chinook maxes out at 12.5 tons
Air Assault Capable

32. M113A2 ~ Aussies in East Timor
off loading in soft beach sand: no problems!
Amphibious

33. M113A3 Gavin Characteristics
Actual vehicle w/25mm AGS, swimming
using tracks, doesn’t need spare tire!
Actually Swims

34. M113A3 ~ “Ultras”
in Singapore Army service
25mm auto cannon system

35. M113A2 ~ Aussies in East Timor
fording, wading, swimming at will

36. M113A2 AIFV~ 12+ t. vehicle
25mm AGS turret = real firepower on real,
mobile platform

37. Aussie Army Upgraded
M113A3s
Gunshielded 40mm turret

38. M113A3 ~ 13 t. vehicle
RPG-proof explosive reactive armor (IDF)

39. M113A3 (M1064A3) 120mm
Mortar track
Note: external fuel cells: can fire 120mm mortar mounted or dismounted,
LAV-III cannot

41. M113A1 ~ Viet Nam
U.S. Mech BN Central highlands 1968
Note: skirts removed, no swim requirement
Combat-Proven

42. M113A1 Gavin ~ Viet Nam
RVN Mech company Mekong Delta 1969
Note: M40A1 106mm Recoilless Rifle
mounted and skirts on
Real Superior Firepower Options

43. M113A2 Gavins ~ C-5B off-load
note: 8+ vehicles, combat-ready
only 5 LAVs on a C-5B, not combat config’d
Real Fixed-Wing Air Transportability

44. M113A2 ~ with Spaced
Applique’ armor = real
protection

45. M113A3 ~ LAV III
Note: no turrets
Height is the biggest visual give away on the
battlefield!

46. Additional Information
• Many nations use the M113 Gavin to replace
wheeled vehicles (Australia and Denmark). Some
nations continue to use a mix of tracked and
wheeled vehicles, but none puts all its assault
vehicles in the wheeled category.
• DA has postponed the Congress-mandated “side-
by-side” comparison evaluation test with the M113
repeatedly citing developmental problems at first,
and then claiming it wasn’t necessary. After CE
tests proved M113A3 Gavin superiority, written
reports have been declared “top secret”

47. M113 Gavin Characteristics
Summary
• There are literally thousands of M113s in
various configurations around the world today,
and they represent a tried and true infantry
assault vehicle. M113 Gavins are flexible,
resilient and mobile, getting to the fight and
being in the fight with positional, firepower,
mobility and protection advantages.

48. Alibi?
About now you might be wondering why there are no
pictures of LAV-III Strykers in difficult combat action
coming from the Army—only PR stuff. The real pics
of them stuck and burning have come from honest,
non-Army sources…like the troops forced to use
them!
This is because there are none that have been in action
yet. However, the M113 Gavin has been around a
while, is proven in combat, and has a fine history to
back its real combat performances which continue as
we speak while the LAV-III Strykers play in mock
war games.

49. Conclusion
• Buying an expensive and impractical LAV-III
Stryker wheeled vehicle which is called an
“Interim” Infantry Assault Vehicle when we
already have superior M113 Gavin tracked
vehicles is a poor expenditure of Army funds.
• Once we have it, the Army will be stuck with
it until we have to try to fight from it, and then it
will be costing lives, rather than saving them.