T minus 10 interview series by space industry leader Dylan Taylor. This episode features author, speaker, and industry pioneer Rick Tumlinson.

1. An interview seires
with Dylan Taylor
T-MINUS 10
RICK TUMLINSON
with

2. T-MINUS 10 INTERVIEW SERIES | Dylan Taylor
Rick Tumlinson has been called one of the world’s top space
“visionaries” and is credited with helping create the commercial
space industry of Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos, often referred to as
NewSpace. As a result of his world changing work, in 2015 he won
the World Technology Award. He is a founding partner of
SpaceFund, a new type of investment firm at the intersection of
digital financial technologies and space development focused on
early stage space companies. A leading writer, speaker, policy
expert and Congressional witness, he led the commercial takeover
of the Russian Mir space station, signed the first space tourist, co-
founded the Space Frontier Foundation, and was a founding board
member of the X-Prize. His non-profit organizations, The EarthLight
Foundation and the New Worlds Institute support research into
frontier enabling research and education.
ABOUT
RICK TUMLINSON

3. I’m an Air Force kid, so I grew up in many places. Primary influences were far West Texas where I lived often
with my grandparents, and the UK for about 8 years before I turned 18.Dad was an Air Force Sargeant, a
flight crew chief, its important but still only paid blue collar wages. I am the oldest of three brothers. To
support our family, he had to take on sometimes 3 other jobs. He and my grandparents were hardcore about
teaching us all practical things. My brothers and I can wire a house, fix a car, shoot a gun and manage a
garden. Mum was a lovely little English lady with a wicked sense of humour who set up food pantries and
Meals on Wheels in East Texas, and was recognized by the state legislature for her work.I was a chronic
asthmatic early on. I joke about my first camping trip being in an oxygen tent. It made me tough and gave
me a ton of time to learn and study. I was essentially self-taught in many areas. By many measurements I was
bad kid, a rebel. I was in constant reaction to the system, fighting all the way, eventually joining other bad
kids and living a counter life style. I had to re-invent myself several times, always pushing towards an ideal
just beyond reach, but getting closer every time. It was a struggle (still is) but slowly I pulled myself towards
the dream.I eventually found myself in New York City married to a lovely actress. I started the New York L-5
Society aboard the Intrepid Aircraft carrier, soon becoming the largest chapter of that organization....
10. WHAT IS YOUR BACKGROUND, WHERE DID YOU GROW UP?
T-MINUS 10 INTERVIEW SERIES | Dylan Taylor

4. (continued) Dr. O’Neill’s High Frontier had changed everything for me and so many others. He gave us
permission to dream, and shifted the opening of space to something we could do, regular people, in a way
making us all feel we had the “right stuff”. So I volunteered to work for Dr. O’Neill at his Institute in
Princeton. Through the kindness he and Dr. Dyson and others showed me, I was soon an employee.Along
the way I became involved in the politics and policies of the frontier in DC. We passed the first Space
Settlement Act in 1988. At he same time I founded the Space Frontier Foundation with some amazing
friends, and during the 1990’s we went to war with the existing aerospace establishment in the name of
opening the frontier. Way too much to tell you about that…lol… but we put in place the framework for what
we call the NewSpace revolution. Heck, we invented the term at one of our leader’s dining room tables in
Virginia. It’s not well known, but without the work of our merry band of volunteers SpaceX an much of the
commercial spaceflight industry might not exist today, as we initiated the shift to commercial space in the
government and incubated a lot of would be entrepreneurs and their ideas. It was a rough and long fight,
again, a long story…By the way, someone should tell that story sometime, as there were so many who gave
their evenings, weekends, family time, vacations and more to open the path for those I call the “billionaire
cavalry” to ride through. Real heroes. Personally, I owe a huge debt to those along the way who helped
me/allowed me to join in this cause, and to them, the true heroes of the movement.
10. WHAT IS YOUR BACKGROUND, WHERE DID YOU GROW UP?
T-MINUS 10 INTERVIEW SERIES | Dylan Taylor

5. As a kid I couldn’t find a lot of super achiever role models in my immediate surroundings. I
retreated into reading, and later films and TV. I lived in the heroes of Robert Heinlein, Isaac
Asimov and Arthur C. Clark, (all of whom I got to meet, and even became friends with
“Uncle Arthur”, as we used to call him!) I watched the first space race on TV at the same
time I was ingesting these visions of the future, including Star Trek and eventually Star Wars
and the rest. I could see what was happening out there right now, and was reading and
watching stories about where it would lead. In the mind of a young kid it all melded
together. I wanted to help “make it so”. But I had no idea how to get there from my life. I
wasn’t one of those who knew my path from a young age. Life was too immediate, and it all
looked like fiction. It took time and a lot of wrong turns to make it happen. But as Gene
Rodennberry told me in a chance encounter in college: it doesn’t matter where you came
from or where you are, but where you want to go. Never let anyone tell you that you can’t,
always stay your course, and never ever give up.
9. WHEN DID YOU FIRST BECOME INTERESTED IN SPACE?
T-MINUS 10 INTERVIEW SERIES | Dylan Taylor

6. 8. WHAT DO YOU THINK THE BIGGEST ISSUE FACING THE
INDUSTRY TODAY?
W H I L E W E F O U G H T I T F O R D E C A D E S , P R O J E C T S L I K E T H E S L S ( W H A T I B R A N D E D T H E
S E N A T E L A U N C H S Y S T E M ) S H O W T H E G O V E R N M E N T C E N T E R E D E L E M E N T O F H U M A N
S P A C E F L I G H T I S S T I L L E N C R U S T E D I N A C U L T U R A L L E G A C Y O F W A S T E A N D S H O R T T E R M
T H I N K I N G T H A T D E P E N D S O N T H E U S G A S I T S B E L L W E A T H E R F O R P E R M I S S I O N T O T H I N K
B I G – E X C E P T I N A F E W S P E C I F I C C A S E S O F V E R Y R I C H D R E A M B U I L D E R S .
L A C K O F S M A R T M O N E Y . I N V E S T O R S C H A S E S H I N Y O B J E C T S B A S E D N O T O N T H E I R T R U E
P O S S I B I L I T Y O F M A K I N G L O N G T E R M R E T U R N S B U T O N T H E H Y P E O R B I A S O F T H E
E X I S T I N G I N D U S T R Y – T A K E R O C K E T S F O R E X A M P L E … E V E R Y O N E L O V E S R O C K E T S . B U T W E
H A V E T O O M A N Y , A N D I T W I L L B E S A D W H E N S O M A N Y G O O D I N T E N T I O N E D I N V E S T O R S
L O S E T H E I R M O N E Y B Y B E T T I N G O N T H E H U N D R E D O R S O C O M P A N I E S T H A T A R E
D O O M E D T O F A I L I N T H E C O M I N G Y E A R S . A L S O , W E N E E D T O D E V E L O P A W A Y T O
F I N A N C E E A R L Y S T A G E S T A R T U P S T O F E E D I N T O T H E N E W S P A C E E C O S Y S T E M , O N E
R E A S O N I S T A R T E D S P A C E F U N D . I T C A N ’ T A L L B E D O N E B Y J E F F A N D E L O N . W E N E E D F A R
M O R E P L A Y E R S , B O T H T T O E N A B L E A N D T O B E E N A B L E D B Y T H E I R W O R K .
Y O U A S K A B O U T T H E I N D U S T R Y , N O T T H E C A U S E , N O T T H E N E W S P A C E I N D U S T R Y , B U T
I N D U S T R Y O V E R A L L …
T-MINUS 10 INTERVIEW SERIES | Dylan Taylor

7. 8. WHAT DO YOU THINK THE BIGGEST ISSUE FACING THE INDUSTRY
TODAY?
C O M P E T I T I O N F R O M T H E A E R O S P A C E I N D U S T R I A L C O M P L E X / G O V E R N M E N T P R O G R A M S . I T ’ S
S A D T H A T W H A T P A S S E S F O R V I S I O N A R Y W H E N I T C O M E S T O T H I N G S L I K E R E T U R N I N G T O
T H E M O O N A R E O F T E N F R O N T S F O R K E E P I N G T H E P O R K F L O W I N G , A G A I N , O N E C A N L O O K
A T A R T E M I S A S A R E A D Y M A D E W A Y T O R A T I O N A L I Z E S L S W H I C H M I G H T H A V E D I E D W I T H O U T
I T . M E A N W H I L E , T H E P R I V A T E S E C T O R P R O - F R O N T I E R C O M P A N I E S O U T T H E R E C O U L D D O
T H E W H O L E T H I N G I F G I V E N T H E S A M E F U N D I N G A N D S U P P O R T , A N D A T T H E E N D W E ’ D H A V E
E S T A B L I S H E D A V I B R A N T S E T O F C O M M U N I T E S I N S P A C E A N D O N T H E M O O N – A N D B E
H E A D I N G T O M A R S .
L A C K O F I M A G I N A T I O N . I R O N I C E H ? F O R E X A M P L E – I F T H I S W E R E A C O M M O N S E N S E F I E L D
F O C U S E D O N C R E A T I N G A R E A L F R O N T I E R I N S P A C E , A L L C U R R E N T D I S P O S A B L E R O C K E T
P R O G R A M S W O U L D B E C A N C E L L E D T O F O C U S O N 1 0 0 % R E U S E - A B I L I T Y . N O T H I N G E L S E
M A K E S S E N S E .
L A C K O F U N D E R S T A N D I N G A N D T A K I N G O N T H E R E A L R E L E V A N C E O F O U R F I E L D T O T H E
R E S T O F H U M A N I T Y . B U Y I N G I N T O T H E C O N C E P T T H A T S P A C E I S O V E R H E R E , A W A Y F R O M
T H E M A I N S T R E A M O F T H E R E S T O F H U M A N C O N C E R N S – W H E N I N S T E A D , I T I S A C T U A L L Y
C E N T R A L A N D S H O U L D B E T H E C E N T R A L F O C U S O F L O N G T E R M H U M A N I N D U S T R I A L F O C U S .
T-MINUS 10 INTERVIEW SERIES | Dylan Taylor

8. 8. WHAT DO YOU THINK THE BIGGEST ISSUE FACING THE
INDUSTRY TODAY?
G I V E N A L L I V E S A I D A B O U T T H E G O V E R N M E N T , T H E R E A R E S O M E V E R Y B R I G H T A N D
S H I N I N G L I G H T S O F H O P E T H E R E . T H E A I R F O R C E / S P A C E F O R C E I N I T I A T I V E S H A V E
C R E A T E D A M A J O R W A V E O F N E W T H I N K I N G I N T H E M I L I T A R Y , F R A N K L Y B O R N O U T O F
M A N Y Y E A R S O F W O R K B Y P R O - F R O N T I E R T H I N K E R S R I S I N G I N T H E I R R A N K S .
I N C O N G R E S S A N D O T H E R G O V E R N M E N T S W E H A V E P L A N T E D T H E S E E D S O F T H E S O R T S
O F L A W S A N D P O L I C I E S W E N E E D T O T H E P E O P L E T O S U C C E E D I N T H E I R W O R K T O O P E N
T H E S O L A R S Y S T E M . T H E R E H A V E B E E N S O M E V E R Y V I S I O N B A S E D L A W S A N D
R E G U L A T I O N S P A S S E D R E C E N T L Y . A N D E V E N I N N A S A A N D S O M E O F T H E M A J O R
A E R O S P A C E C O M P A N I E S O N E C A N S E E T H E S T R U G G L E A S T H O S E W H O “ G E T I T ” W H E N I T
C O M E S T O H U M A N S E T T L E M E N T A N D D E V E L O P M E N T O F S P A C E B A T T L E T O P U T C O M M O N
S E N S E A H E A D O F T I R E D T R A D I T I O N S A N D O L D S C H O O L T H I N K I N G . T H E S E P E O P L E A R E
T H E M S E L V E S Q U I E T H E R O E S I N M Y M I N D .
T-MINUS 10 INTERVIEW SERIES | Dylan Taylor

9. 7. WHAT DO YOU LIKE TO DO
FOR FUN?
W R I T E , G A R D E N , W O R K O N M Y O F F T H E
G R I D R E T R O A L U M I N U M T R A I L E R , L O N G
D R I V E S I N M Y B M W , M O T O R C Y C L E S
( B E T W E E N O W N I N G O N E R I G H T N O W )
B I N G E O N S C I E N C E F I C T I O N , L I V E M U S I C
( A F T E R A L L I L I V E I N A U S T I N ) .
T-MINUS 10 INTERVIEW SERIES | Dylan Taylor

10. 2001 A Space Odyssey. It is the obvious
choice for a spacer. It was the first film to try
and get it right. At the time it came out we
were just getting to the Moon. It showed a
plausible future that extended from what was
right in front of us. Spaceliners, hotels in
space, Lunar research bases, deep space
expeditions and more – with real humans at
the center. Whatever the plot or prime story, I
was enthralled by all the scenes in space, as
they seemed so real. I just wanted to be
there.
6. WHAT IS YOUR FAVORITE MOVIE
AND WHY?
T-MINUS 10 INTERVIEW SERIES | Dylan Taylor

11. As to fiction, of course anything by the three greats
Asimov, Clark and Heinlein. Specifically the most
important were Stranger in a Strange Land and the
Foundation series. The whole Lord of the Rings
series/The High Frontier/The War of Art/Durant’s
History of Philosophy/2001 A Space
Odyssey/Anything by Alan Watts (he’s my guru)
5. WHAT ARE SOME OF YOUR
FAVORITE BOOKS?
T-MINUS 10 INTERVIEW SERIES | Dylan Taylor

12. 4. WHAT ARE YOU
READING NOW?
D O T H E W O R K B Y S T E V E N
P R E S S F I E L D
T H O M A S P A I N E ’ S R I G H T S O F M A N
– A B I O G R A P H Y
O F P L Y M O U T H P L A N T A T I O N –
W I L L I A M B R A D F O R D
T-MINUS 10 INTERVIEW SERIES | Dylan Taylor

13. 3. WHERE DO YOU SEE THE SPACE INDUSTRY
IN TEN YEARS?
W E A R E E I T H E R G O I N G T O B E O N T H E O T H E R S I D E O F T H E R E V O L U T I O N A N D I T
W I L L B E A M A Z I N G A N D A C C E L E R A T I N G O R W E W I L L S T A L L A N D F A L L B A C K I N T O
I N C R E M E N T A L I S M .
F O R E X A M P L E , I F B E Z O S A N D M U S K C O N T I N U E A N D S U C C E E D I N R A D I C A L L Y
R E D U C I N G S P A C E T R A N S P O R T A T I O N C O S T S T O A N D F R O M L E O I S E E A M A Z I N G
T H I N G S H A P P E N I N G . I F N A S A A N D T H O S E W O R K I N G O N T H E G O V E R N M E N T S I D E
C A N S H I F T T O A N E N A B L I N G A P P R O A C H R A T H E R T H A N T R Y I N G T O O V E R L Y
C O N T R O L T H I N G S L I K E T H E I R O W N R E T U R N T O T H E M O O N W E W I L L S E E T H E F I R S T
P E R M A N E N T H U M A N C O M M U N I T I E S O N T H E M O O N . A T L E A S T O N E O F T H E S E
F A C I L I T I E S W I L L B E L E A S E D / O W N E D B Y A P R I V A T E G R O U P S U C H A S T H E
A S G A R D I A N S O R A G R O U P O F B E L I E V E R I N V E S T O R S O F S O M E S O R T . T H A N K F U L L Y ,
W H E N I T C O M E S T O H U M A N S , T H I S I S N O W S E E N A S A B O R I N G ” B E E N T H E R E D O N E
T H A T ” A R E A F O R T H E G O V E R N M E N T . I F T H E Y C A N H A N D O F F I S S T H E R I G H T W A Y
A N D W E G E T T H E R A I L R O A D T O L E O W E N E E D , T H E R E W I L L B E A R E A L E S T A T E
B O O M I N O R B I T . T H E R E W I L L B E A T L E A S T F O U R S P A C E S T A T I O N S O F D I F F E R E N T
K I N D S A N D M O R E . ( I N C L U D I N G T H E C H I N E S E . )
T-MINUS 10 INTERVIEW SERIES | Dylan Taylor

14. 3. WHERE DO YOU SEE THE SPACE INDUSTRY
IN TEN YEARS?
G A T E W A Y W I L L B E G O N E .
A R T E M I S A S I T I S C U R R E N T L Y C O N C E I V E D W I L L B E C A N C E L L E D O R D R A M A T I C A L L Y
S H I F T E D A N D S U P P L A N T E D B Y A N E A R T H F O C U S E D D R I V E F O R N A S A – M E A N W H I L E T H E
P R I V A T E S E C T O R W I L L P U S H O N , W I T H S O M E S U P P O R T I N G T E C H A N D F U N D I N G F R O M
T H E A G E N C I E S .
W E W I L L H A V E H A D O U R F I R S T M I L I T A R Y C O N F R O N T A T I O N I N S P A C E . H O P E F U L L Y
R E S U L T I N G I N A N E W S E T O F T R E A T I E S A N D U N D E R S T A N D I N G S F O R A L L C O N C E R N E D .
W E W I L L B E M O V I N G B E Y O N D T H E S W A R M S O F T I N Y S A T E L L I T E C O N S T E L L A T I O N S .
T H E F I R S T H U M A N F L I G H T S T O M A R S W I L L H A V E B E E N A C C O M P L I S H E D B Y S P A C E X .
B E Z O S W I L L B E M I N I N G T H E M O O N , A N D P E R H A P S E V E N H E A D I N G O U T T O G R A B A N
A S T E R O I D .
A T L E A S T O N E M A S S I V E M A J O R C L I M A T E C H A N G E R E L A T E D P R O J E C T W I L L B E
U N D E R W A Y I N S P A C E ( O N E O F M Y N E X T P R O J E C T S ) .
I F T H E B I L L I O N A I R E S S C R E W I T U P A N D F A I L , I F T H E Y W I T H D R A W O R A R E S T I F L E D B Y
P E O P L E W H O E Q U A T E T H E I R W O R K W I T H B R I N G I N G D O W N T H E . 1 P E R C E N T , T H I N G S W I L L
L O O K L I K E T O D A Y , W I T H S O M E I N C R E M E N T A L C H A N G E S A N D O U R D R E A M S P U S H E D
F U R T H E R I N T O T H E F U T U R E
( C O N T I N U E D )
T-MINUS 10 INTERVIEW SERIES | Dylan Taylor

15. Surround yourself with excellent dreamers. Either build something new yourself or join an entrepreneurial or
belief based group in which you can play a bigger role in transforming the future. If you have no other path,
go corporate so you can at least participate, but realize your dreams will be in the hands of others. (You can
always spin out and do your own thing later.)
Know that if you join or create a start up you are gambling both on yourself and your team-mates – so they
better be dam good – as there is some equation out there that says your own excellence is directly
proportional to the team you lead or are a part of and this means more than brilliance. It includes things like
integrity, compassion, grit and a willingness to dive in and pick up a mop if needed. No flakes, assholes or
elitists allowed – even if they are a genius, as they will sink you/screw you/kill your team or spirit in the end.
That’s what airlocks are for.
Before you start something new study the field, know that the biggest liar you will meet is yourself and your
own ability to snowjob your own practical sensibilities, so make sure you have a good reality check network
around you, and don’t be so attached to your idea that you cant let it go if something else makes better
sense.Always remember – There is a very, very fine line between someone who clings to something stupid and
tanks and someone who won’t take no for an answer and becomes a star.
2. WHAT WOULD YOU TELL PEOPLE JUST STARTING OUT IN THE SPACE INDUSTRY?
T-MINUS 10 INTERVIEW SERIES | Dylan Taylor

16. (continued)
We have enough rocket engineers. Do something else.
Don’t start anything that will take a hundred million to succeed. Pick something that
can make money either directly related to your space goals very soon, or that can
produce something also relevant to a current market.
However no matter what you choose, realize this is a long play, and do not forsake
family and your own well being today in hopes of it all happening quickly. In the end
we do this for life, love and humanity. Don’t lose yours in the quest to be great, rich
or powerful, for when you succeed and your descendants are sitting by the viewing
port of their city in space, you want the songs they sing of you to be those of
someone who was good.
2. WHAT WOULD YOU TELL PEOPLE JUST STARTING OUT IN THE SPACE INDUSTRY?
T-MINUS 10 INTERVIEW SERIES | Dylan Taylor

17. Dreamer – Doer – Lover
1. WHAT THREE WORDS BEST
DESCRIBE YOU?
T-MINUS 10 INTERVIEW SERIES | Dylan Taylor

18. Have someone to recommend
for an interview? Contact me!
T-MINUS 10 INTERVIEW SERIES
WITH LEADERS OF THE SPACE
INDUSTRY
www.dylantaylor.org