The Entrepreneurs Radio Show 066 Lori Saitz

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW
Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business
Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur‟s Radio Show Page 1 of 25
EPISODE #66: LORI SAITZ
In this episode, Travis interviews successful entrepreneur and creative business owner Lori Saitz. Lori
is the creator of Gratitude Cookies and turned it into the famous gift that everyone‟s familiar with and
has become a requisite for smart business owners. Now Lori concentrates on increasing the scope of
the Gratitude Cookie and the concept of saying thank you to clients.
Travis and Lori shared important points namely showing gratitude to clients to not only ensure
satisfaction but loyalty as well. Also, they discussed about the 5 steps to a successful follow-up
campaign of appreciation and several aspects of business that will help you take your business to the
next level. These includes avoiding gift giving during big holidays like Christmas and Thanksgiving,
getting the feel of your client‟s lifetime value in determining how much you‟ll invest in them as well as
determining how often you should give, setting up a process to ensure its continuity, and finally, making
a spreadsheet to keep track of all the important information. These are just some of the things that
Travis and Lori shared and surely, entrepreneurs could easily apply in their business.
Lori Saitz – Using Gratitude to grow your business
Travis: Hey, it's Travis Lane Jenkins, welcome to episode number 66 of the Entrepreneur's Radio
Show, a production of Rock Star Entrepreneur Network. It's just me and you today. My good friend and
co-host is still travelling for business. One of her businesses is dealing with NASCAR, Indy cars, things
like that, so she's on the road for business. Our guest today is Lori Saitz. Lori's specialty is the gratitude
part of business, showing your clients appreciation and gratitude for being a client of yours. This is
something that doesn't get near as much attention as it deserves because most people are intoxicated
with bringing more clients in, when really one of the best places that you can spend your money, even a
very small amount of money is by thanking your clients and spending some time to develop that
relationship after the check has been cleared. So, now Lori also handles the heavy lifting of creating
and sitting a lot of those gifts out, which we'll get into. In this episode, we'll also cover the 5 steps to a
successful follow-up campaign of appreciation and several aspects of business that will help you take
your business to the next level, that's always our focus with each and every episode. Before I get
started, I want to remind you to be sure and stay with us until the very end if you can because I've got a
question for you. And I'd like to share a little inspiration.
However, I want to start the show off with a challenge for you. We've set-up a recording device on our
website where you can click the button and leave a recorded message. I want you to send us some of
your toughest challenges with your business today. If your question gets selected, we'll answer them on

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issue, then there's a really good chance that several other people are too.
So, also, while you're at Rock Star Entrepreneur Network, so you need to type in Rock Star
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inspire other great entrepreneurs like yourself, because iTunes pays close attention to stuff like that,
so...
Enough about that, again, I've got a great interview for you so let's get down to business. So without
further ado, welcome to the show Lori.
Lori: Thank you for having me, this is going to be fun.
Travis: Lori's got her camera on for everybody today, even though we're just doing audio. So I'm
looking at Lori for you and I'm going to make sure that she's focused. She got all dressed up for us
today. Hey Lori, before we get into...
Lori: Yeah, maybe I'll...
Travis: What's that?
Lori: I said, maybe since you said that I'll turn it off now.
Travis: No, you've got to keep it on now.
Lori: Alright.
Travis: Okay, so, before we get into what you teach, give us the background. How did you get to where
you're at today?
Lori: Yeah, my background is in marketing and corporate communications, public relations, advertising,
and some broadcasting.
Travis: Right.
Lori: And, I worked in that industry for quite a while, and at the same time I always had, I love playing
in the kitchen, and so I had this recipe for a product that is now known to the world as the Gratitude
Cookie, but at that point, they were just Holiday Cookies. We used to make them when I was a kid for

friends and family, and I would make them as an adult for colleagues and friends. And people would
always say, "Oh my gosh, these are so good, you should sell them."
So, I was always working in, I was either on the corporate side and I also worked on the agency side in
marketing and corporate communications. So I wasn't necessarily looking for a second full-time job, but
I kind of kept the idea in the back of my head and then there came the day when I wasn't working and I
thought, "Okay, what am I going to do now?" And so I came back to the cookie idea and looked at it
and thought, "Alright, well, I have really no desire to be the next Mrs. Fields," not that there's anything
wrong, she's awesome and I've met her, but that wasn't what I wanted to do. And I looked at it for a
more of a marketing standpoint, and how can I help create a tool for businesses to say thank you to
their clients and portray the image that they would want.
Travis: Right. So, when you talk about that, I think of it, as you're explaining, it's both literal and
figurative then, right, the cookie.
Lori: Yes.
Travis: So go deeper on that, explain both sides of that. So obviously, one is you eat and the other one
is showing appreciation, right.
Lori: Exactly, that's exactly why it's called the gratitude cookie because, one, if you're sending it to
someone, you're presumably showing appreciation for that relationship. And secondly, if you are the
one eating the cookie, we encourage you to think about something you're grateful for, or kind of
continues that whole process of, or chain of appreciation.
Travis: Right. So, back to the transition from what I understand as corporate America job to becoming
your own solo-preneur and maybe entrepreneur journey. How did you make that transition?
Lori: Yeah, my husband and I had moved around the country for his job a couple of times, and we
ended up in South Florida, and that was the point where I kind of was looking at what do I want to do
now. I was a little bit burned out on marketing, so I went back to one of my first passions which was
broadcasting. And I actually worked in broadcasting, on air, radio personality in the South Florida
market, but I was doing it as a part-time, filling-in for people, working overnights, making $10 an hour.
Travis: On the air, $10 an hour on the air?
Lori: Yes.
Travis: Okay.
Lori: That was actually good.

Travis: Okay.
Lori: So, I worked in midnight to 6 am shifts and stuff like that. I loved it but, really, $10 an hour, come
on.
Travis: Right.
Lori: So that's when I started looking around for what else am I going to do, and came back to that
whole idea of what can I do with this cookie recipe, and started looking for packaging, and figuring out
where there was an opportunity in the market. And so, at that time--the concept of the Gratitude Cookie
was always that it's a tool for saying thank you. But it took a few years before actually came up with... I
was part of a mastermind group actually, and the name of the Gratitude Cookie came out of something
somebody in that mastermind said, and it was like a lightning bulb, oh my gosh, that is perfect, because
they had been known as then Rabbit Cookies. But now, bringing the gratitude cookie brand to it,
perfect.
Travis: Right, because it illustrates what you're after, you know, and that's a common mistake people
make with naming whatever they're doing, their product, their service, their mastermind is they don't
name what it does, they give it an esoteric name and then your marketing has to educate on what it is.
And a lot of times, those lightning strikes come from outside your own mind or your own family because
you're so close to what's going on, right.
Lori: Exactly, but you have to be open to where ideas could come from.
Travis: Right.
Lori: Paying attention when they'd come.
Travis: Yeah, exactly. So how long did it take for you to transition into to finding success on this
venture?
Lori: That is a good question and I think, when I first started my definition of success was a little bit
different than what it is now. And so, when I first started, my definition of success was, you know, $10
million company. And not quite there yet, but my definition of success now is that having a business
that, what's the word I'm looking for? You know, that I enjoy and making connections and having
relationships with clients that I love working with, and doing something that I'd really find value, or bring
value, that I can be of service to other with something valuable. And that to me is success. So, it took a
few years.
Travis: Yeah, I think it's, you know, business on your own terms, right.

Lori: Right.
Travis: Able to do what you want to do, when you want to do it and work with who you want to work
with. Not all clients are ideal clients are a good fit for one another. There's a part of the market at any
market, virtually everybody listening deals with some form of public and we know that there is a third of
the market that you've got to steer away from. There's another third that is, you know, really kind of on
the fence and driven by price and possibly value, and then the upper third is focused on value. And
normally those are some of the best client or prospects to target and clients to have, right.
Lori: Yeah. It definitely took me several years to figure out who my ideal clients were and who I wanted
to work with. And that's constantly evolving too.
Travis: Right. So, now you've been doing this for 10 years, is that correct?
Lori: Yes.
Travis: Okay. And so what, it's 2013, so you started in 2003, and then how many years before this
thing really started monetizing and paying some bills, and you know, it become a viable business that
you could say, this is going to support me in my endeavors, and this is the path I'm going to go down.
Lori: Longer than most people we'd put up with.
Travis: Well, you know, and the reason why I ask you these questions is and a big part of the reason
why this show created is I don't feel like successful businesses are painted in a fair light. I believe that
there's a whole lot more hocus-pocus, you've got a successful business with a snap of the fingers and
you're living the dream, and that's not true. And so what happens is people go out and start a business
themselves, they really struggle, they can't make any money or they can't cover all of their bills for
several years and then they think, "Wow, I'm an idiot. I must not have the business acumen that
everybody else does because everyone seems to be having incredible success and I'm still not at the
level I want to be." And that's not true. Success comes from not giving up and being focused, and
targeted, and growing, and evolving, and building that business over time. And so, sometimes it's 4
years, sometimes it's 7, sometimes it's 10. It just really depends. What was it for you, 3, 4, 5, 7, what?
Lori: Finally, I would say in the past year or so, it's finally feels like, "Okay, this is working."
Travis: Right.
Lori: But, yeah. I'm waiting for the story that's going to come out in whatever magazine that's going to
profile Zen Rabbit and claim it's an overnight success.
Travis: Right.

Lori: Because, just exactly what you said, "poster child for persistence right here."
Travis: Yeah, and that's how a lot of the stories are presented as overnight success that's been in the
works for 10 years.
Lori: Yeah.
Travis: And so, a lot of it is pricing models, you've got to look at your pricing models and make sure
that your pricing is right, that your targeting is right, and all of those things. One of the things that I
understand that you do. So let's say... Let me make sure that I'm completely on-target here. So let's say
I have an auto responder series that recognizes once someone makes a purchase of a product of mine,
and I want to, in that series, thank them. So I have an automated process that sends an order to you
guys, and so maybe I sold 340 small, or entry-level programs and I want to send them a cookie. Can I
automate that and send those orders to you?
Lori: You most certainly can, and I have clients who do that all the time. In fact...
Travis: No, go ahead.
Lori: I was just going to say there are two, my best clients, there are two ways their orders come to me.
One is through their CRM system just like you described. And the second is be at their assistant.
Travis: Yeah.
Lori: Who stays on top of that kind of thing and manually sends them in.
Travis: Right. So how unusual can you get with the product that you send somebody?
Lori: What do you mean by unusual?
Travis: Well, how unique is it, because a lot of times people really raise an eyebrow to a unique
product. When they get something that is very different. The first stage in my experience and I've done
quite a bit of this myself, number one it's nice to send them a gift, period, saying thank you and most
people don't do that. Then secondarily, the more unique it is the more of a response you'll get from
them. Or, if it has some type of personal note or anything to it. Can you add elements to that, is that
how you work?
Lori: Yeah. So everything...The gratitude cookie is just one of the tools. It's the thing I started the
business with but I have other products that I can send-out for clients as well. But talking about the
gratitude cookie, every package gets sent with a message from you, and that message can be

customized for each individual package. Now some of the packages can be customized even further
with your logo and your contact information on the card that goes inside the package.
Travis: So how unique can you get with the gifts, I mean, is it just a range of cookies or what else can
you do? And I don't mean to simplify it by saying just cookies because I'm sure...
Lori: Yeah, the gratitude cookie itself is a cross between butter and a sugar cookie, there's one kind of
gratitude cookie. Just like there's one kind of fortune cookie.
Travis: Right.
Lori: There's one gratitude cookie... A new client asked me the other day. She said, "Well, the person I
want to send it to, I asked him what his favourite kind of cookie was and he said oatmeal. Can you do
something with that?" I said, "The only reason he said oatmeal was his favourite kind is because he
hasn't had a gratitude cookie yet." The cookie itself is what it is, the packaging is where we can get
customized and play around, and have fun. Other products, the bamboo arrangements, money trees
which are actually a plant, barbecue sauce, what's it called… pancake and maple syrup gift packages,
goat milk soap, picture frames, I've done all kinds of stuff for clients. When we sit down and have a
conversation about what really works, or what works for them. Some people may not want a food gift. I
usually advise everyone against sending alcoholic beverages, unless you know the recipient really well.
Travis: Right.
Lori: I would stay away from that, just because you never know what somebody's story is and I
wouldn't want to be offensive.
Travis: Yeah, exactly. You got to be very careful about that for a variety of reasons, they could be a
recovering alcoholic, they could be a non-drinker or whatever. I like the interesting, little gadgety gifts
because sometimes, maybe not gadgety, gadgety isn't the right word, but gimmicky little gifts because
if you have a quirky personality and you just want to be a little playful with somebody, you can send
them a bottle of syrup, or whatever, and then have a letter that says "Hate to get too syrupy with you
but doing business with you is great," right.
Lori: Right.
Travis: And it's just stuff that make people chuckle a little and remember, and I like stuff like that, you
stand out from everybody else. Now, getting back on the cookie, I agree with you that standardizing the
cookie is the best way to do that, if not, you're trying to create 40 different cookies for everybody, and it
just becomes a nightmare of a business model.
Lori: Yeah, it just doesn't work.

Travis: Yeah, so it definitely makes sense. And so, go deeper on do you help people on the strategies
of showing gratitude, and tell me more about that.
Lori: Yes, exactly. So that's part of the evolution of this business is it's starting that way of, "Here's a
cookie, send it out to your clients." But it's become--what I started realizing was people didn't
necessarily know how to use it, or they knew it was important to say thank you and everybody knows
it's good manners but it would just get put on the back burner. And the reason that would happen is
because it didn't have a system. Let's say you get a referral today from someone and you think, "I need
to send that person a thank you, that was really nice of them. Oh, but I have to answer these 5 emails
and return 10 phone calls. I'll think about that later." Three weeks go by, three months go buy and you
never get back to it. So what I'm helping businesses do now is put together an appreciation marketing
strategy that could fit into their marketing plan. Most marketing plan, if businesses even have them,
focused pretty exclusively on getting new clients, and don't have the component at all that involves
saying thank you and appreciating the clients that they already have, which, as we both know, is where
there a lot of money is. And so, helping them put together that appreciation-marketing component using
5-step system I have, we look at where the appreciation opportunities are. For example, what do you
do when you get a new client, what do you do when you get a referral, and laying it all out so that the
next time you get a referral, you don't have to think about what you do, you know, "Oh, I send them a
box of gratitude cookies" or "Oh, I send them a gift package of barbecue sauce, or a bamboo
arrangement" or whatever it is you don't have to think about it. And that's where you can easily put it in
to your CRM system, so when you're entering the information about that referral, there's some kind of
trigger in there and, "Okay, got an email, send so and so the package we agreed on".
Travis: Right. So let me break it down from my side because I own a couple of different businesses
and I track everything that I do, and that's another mistake that most business owners make is they
don't track everything that they do, right. So I know my lead cost, I know how much it takes to get a
qualified lead to call me which is $50 right now for one of my businesses and that lead cost used to be
$180. But now, what you do is lead cost still doesn't mean that they're actually going to be a qualified
lead. They still need to be qualified, you still need to go out and see them and then of the people that
you see you may sell 20, 30, 40%, whatever. So ultimately, my cost per customer is about $200, right.
Lori: Cost to get a customer.
Travis: Yeah, customer acquisition is $200, and most people don't know that.
Lori: Right.
Travis: And so I'm sharing this to illustrate your point because I love examples and numbers is it's
easier to send a 15, $20 item to some you just provided a service to, to deepen the relationship

because A, what you're doing is you're sending this to them after the check. And so, when you do
something before you've been paid--most clients feel like that's just part of the service and it's included.
But when you send a gift, or a thank you, or something above and beyond once the service has been
completed, it's obvious to everybody that you're going above and beyond what most people do by
sending them a thank you gift. And so 20, $25, however much it is, is a far cry from the $200 acquisition
cost of a customer. And then it's a prime time to ask referrals, ask for additional business, offer
coupons, whatever. And so I wanted to paint that picture to illustrate what you're saying because I know
it to be true. Most people are so intoxicated with acquiring new clients that they forget about the existing
clients.
Lori: Exactly. And not only is the customer acquisition cost important to know, but what's the lifetime
value of a client?
Travis: Alright. So, I know how to do that math. Break that math down for us.
Lori: Well, there are a couple of different ways but the simplest way, the quick and dirty way is how
much are you going to make from the client in a year, or in a month, depending on how you... Is it a
monthly program, however you provide service. So much income is that client bringing you, or how
much revenue is that client bringing in to your business in a year.
Travis: Right.
Lori: How many years does an average client stay with you? And how many referrals might they send.
Travis: Right, which gets to be a pretty big number.
Lori: Mix all those numbers together and then you come out with an average value of a client. Now of
course every business has A list, B list, and C list clients and you can break them down later but you
need to know the average value of a client in order to be able to know how much you can invest in
keeping them.
Travis: Right. So, one of my companies is a construction company. I own a consulting business and
that's monthly income, and then I have a construction company, a home improvement company as
well, and that was the first company that I built that I never work in. And so my clients typically will come
back 3 to 5 years, so I take their average sale, their average purchase and then multiply it--I figure the
life span of a client, 30 years. So I take 30 years and divide it by the frequency that they purchase,
which is between 3 to 5 years, and then multiply it times their average sale, and then I do the addition
of the referrals, just like you mentioned and that's the exact formula for how I figured that out. Now I did
that for a client of mine, and I asked him, I said, "Do you know how much your lifetime client value is?"
And he goes, "No. I think I used to know." And I said, "Well, if you knew this number I guarantee you

would know." And he said, "Well, tell me what it is." And I said, "It's a $1,200,000 or a $1,100,00.” And
he almost fell out of his chair. And so when you draw that picture exactly like what you're talking about
it gives people some serious clarity as to how important it is and it's worth sending gift that show the
appreciation and drive the depth of that relationship through the roof.
Lori: Exactly, and this is a good time to kind of just throw out this point. It's not so much how much
you're spending on the gift. The gift doesn't have to be expensive; it needs to be impressive and
memorable.
Travis: Right.
Lori: But it doesn't need to necessarily be expensive. If the client is worth a $100,000 to you, that
doesn't mean you have to figure it out and take all 1% and I need to spend them, send a thousand
dollar gift or whatever. I mean you could send a $25 or $50 gift, it's the thought, it really is. The old
saying the thought that counts...
Travis: Right.
Lori: People aren't going to necessarily big on, "Oh, he sent me like…” okay, maybe you want to send
something more than a dollar trinket or something but the fact that you're sending anything at all and
you mentioned earlier, so few people send thank you's. That's what is making the impression, that fact
that you're doing something.
Travis: Right. So, walk me through, you have like 5 steps. Walk me through those 5 steps of what you
advise people to do or to consider whenever they're doing this. I also believe that timing is important.
When the pay the bill, I think you need to get that out to them right after that.
Lori: Right.
Travis: And I'm probably jumping ahead of you. So let me get out of the way and you tell me what
those 5 normal things, considerations are.
Lori: Yeah. So it's the first step is to look at what are opportunities in your business. Every business,
every industry has some naturally occurring opportunities. Now, obviously every business is going to
have the opportunity of a new client coming in. So you look at, what do you when you get a new client,
what do you do when you get a referral. In some industries they happen to collect information about
birthdays, it doesn't matter of course, financial services for example. Maybe there's an opportunity to
send a card or a gift at a birthday. Financial services industry also has an opportunity in the... When
somebody turns 59 and a half, big hand, start taking, they can start withdrawing from their retirement
funds without penalty. And so that‟s an opportunity that occurs pretty much just in that industry. But

every industry has different things. And so we look at all of those naturally occurring opportunities, and
then there's also the ones you can create. So I was working with a client yesterday and we were
looking at... Okay, sure, Valentine‟s Day for example. Nobody really sends anything to clients on
Valentine‟s Day but what an awesome opportunity to go and send a message that says, "We love our
clients, or we love working with you and we value or relationship." And sending a car or a gift, or
whatever it is, using Valentine‟s Day as an excuse. May is national barbecue month, and it's the kick-off
of summer, so you could send a pack of barbecue, you know, a gift pack of barbecue sauce with a
great message you know, "Let us help you kick-off your summer grilling season" or whatever it is, there
are plenty of reasons that could be around holidays like that or holidays that are related specifically to
your industry. I don't know if there's a national appreciate a construction worker day, but if there was,
that could be a good one you could use. I have to look that up. And so, that's the first step, figuring out
where all the opportunities are and having fun with that. The second step is what we already about,
figuring out what is the lifetime value of a client so you know how much you can afford to invest in
keeping that client. The third step is... The third step is figuring out then what is it that you want to give?
Do you want to do something once a year and I highly, highly recommend staying away from
December, holidays, and now people are backing it up and doing stuff for Thanksgiving. It's so crowded
in those 6 weeks that when you send stuff to clients nobody knows who sent want and nobody's paying
attention.
Travis: Right.
Lori: So, stay away from December. But looking at, do you want to send something once a year and
make Valentine‟s day your thing, or do you want to send something smaller throughout the year,
quarterly, or every other month, or how do you want to structure it. And the fourth step is
operationalizing the system. So how is this all going to get done? Because everybody's so busy, they
don't heed something else stuck on their plate that they have to do. And we touched on this already
too. Putting triggers into your CRM system so it automatically picks out messages in orders to your
vendor, whomever you choose to work with. Or is it teaching your assistant, "Hey, when we get a new
client, this is part of the process, you enter the information into our system, they get sent the package of
information that tells them how to work with us. And then you also order from this package from this
vendor, as our welcome.
Travis: Right.
Lori: And teaching them how to do that. Setting up how it gets done.
Travis: Yes, set-up a process.
Lori: Yeah, so that it actually gets done.

Travis: Right.
Lori: And then the fifth step is looking at what's the return on the investment, because we're running
businesses here. Is this working? And what kind of return on the investment are you getting for that, for
what you're doing, for your effort.
Travis: So how would I be able to tell whether what I'm doing is making a difference versus not doing
at all?
Lori: That's a good question, and sometimes it's hard to tell.
Travis: That's a rhetorical question, I know the answer from my side and I'll tell you what mine is.
Lori: Sometimes it's hard to tell but other times, for example, are you getting--we already figured out
how much a client is worth to you. So are you getting more business from that client now, or are you
getting more referrals then you would have in the past on average. I have a client, for example, he has
a membership program and people were signing up and even though he had told them it was going to
take several months for them to see results, and they needed to patient and stick with it... We see a lot
of people dropout in about 6 months. And so we created a program where he sends a box of gratitude
cookies, actually they're dropping out more 7 or 8 months but we're sending the box of gratitude
cookies at 6 months to say, "Hey, thanks for being part of this program, I enjoy working with you. Here's
to looking forward to a long and mutually profitable relationship" kind of planting a seed in their mind.
So his client retention started out at 7, 8 months, and very shortly after we started sending out that box
of gratitude cookies, his client retention doubled.
Travis: Nice.
Lori: And he's now at 18 months average.
Travis: Wow, that's impressive.
Lori: So, that's one way you can tell.
Travis: Yeah, what we've also noticed is the customer feedback increases, referrals increases, and
when I say customer feedback, people literally call and say, "Oh, thank you for the gift, we appreciate
it." There's an additional level of warmth because when you do things for people after the check has
been sent, there's a much higher level of appreciation there. It's like someone going out of their way
and doing something nice for and they're not paid for. It's very different when they do something nice
for you and they're paid for, right.
Lori: Right, exactly. It's the law of reciprocity.

Travis: Right.
Lori: And Robert Cialdini talks about that in his book. When you do something nice for someone they,
even unconsciously look for ways to pay you back, and that could be in the form of more business,
referrals, whatever it is.
Travis: Yeah, I love the story. I think it was Robert Cialdini that told the story of the Hare Krishnas I
don't know that I'm pronouncing that right.
Lori: Yes.
Travis: Where they would stand in the airport, you and I are old enough to remember those guys
hanging out in the airport, they wear the nice little robes and they're traditionally bald, and they would
stand out there and offer you a wax or fake flower. And most people didn't want to turn them down or
hurt their feelings or be rude so they'd give them a dollar, they'd walk around the corner and throw the
flower in the trashcan, and the Hare Krishnas would go every hour, open up the trashcan and pick all
the flowers back out and give them out again.
Lori: Right.
Travis: And he used that as a great example of reciprocity, people not wanting a flower but they're
going to give a dollar in return because of the value that they provided.
Lori: Right, that's exactly it.
Travis: So let me restate the five steps back to you, okay.
Lori: Yes.
Travis: Alright. So look at like a naturally occurring event or holiday, whether it's a birthday or 4th of
July or whatever, and that can be one of the holidays or events that you target. Stay away from big
holidays like Christmas and Thanksgiving so that you don't get rounded out. Then number two, figure
out the lifetime value of the client so that you get a feel for what you should spend. Number three,
determine the frequency that you're going to send something out. So, say that I do have someone with
a high lifetime value, but of course, that's over a long period of time. So, I'm okay with spending say
$60 a year on this level of client. And so $60 a year should get me about let say 3 mailings as an
example. And so, I'm going to do 3 events a year, right.
Lori: Yeah.

Travis: And so that's how you... Okay, that's how you determine your frequency. And then number 4
set-up a process so that it happens regardless. That way it's not relying on you doing it, if you have any
type of CRM in place, automate it so that it reaches out and touches you. Mr. and Mrs. Jackson finished
their order, send them the thank you cookie. Or, if the process entails your secretary doing that, just
set-up a process so that it's automated, right.
Lori: Right.
Travis: And then number 5 look at the return. And so, maybe create a spreadsheet and you can have
your office keep track of the amount of thank you's, of the amount of referrals, of the amount, anything
quantifiable that you can see that there's an impact going on. And those are 5 basic steps to getting this
up and running and making sure that it's paying off.
Lori: Correct.
Travis: Nice. So, what do you see the most common mistakes are when people do this, where do they
go wrong?
Lori: They don't actually implement. So...
Travis: Failure to launch, they've never launched it.
Lori: Yeah, exactly, which I think is not just with appreciation marketing in general but, yeah, I mean
appreciation marketing as and a thing to. Also some people tend to get stuck in too much analysis in
terms of, well, I don't know, they like cookies or would they prefer to have... Don't pull your hair out over
this, it doesn't have to be so customized. Again, it's the thought. Do something that you think is nice
and something that you think is impressive but it doesn't have to be... If you decide to send books, it
doesn't have to be a different book for each person you're sending to. Yeah, I think people can get
stuck in. I don't know, do they play tennis or do they play golf?
Travis: Well, so like my consulting business, I wouldn't mind sending people a thank you cookie along
with Robert Cialdini's book, right, Influence.
Lori: Yeah.
Travis: And that's congruent with what I'm doing. You know I'm fine with selling barbecues, or like my
home improvement company. I know a lot of people, we do projects that increase our outdoor space.
And so I could definitely tie that into a promotion, you know, it's time to get your grill on or however you
want to talk or be playful with your clients, let me buy the first bottle of sauces on me, or something like
that.

Lori: Right. Yeah.
Travis: So you can be as creative as you want to. Now, do you guys help write some of the creative
there?
Lori: I love that stuff, yes. And a lot of my clients come and they have maybe some kind of idea of what
they want to say but they're not really good wordsmiths, and I certainly can help with that.
Travis: Cool, okay. Before I interrupted you, you were talking about some of the things that get into
people's way or what they do wrong. So number one is failure to launch. They don't actually get going
or take action, what else do you see are common mistakes that they should avoid?
Lori: Well that thing of just kind of I don't know what to do, you make a decision, whatever it is, make a
decision, and then standardize it. It's okay, it's also okay is someone has already gotten a box of
cookies 6 months ago and they send you another referral, and now you're going to send them another
box of cookies. It's okay, they probably ate all the other ones, and they are happy to get another box.
Travis: So information paralysis. They're paralyzed with, overwhelmed, or... It's that what you're talking
about or are they thinking way too far ahead, or...
Lori: Try to make it too specialized for each client. It doesn't need to be that customized.
Travis: Right. Yeah, just set-up a kind of a rent and repeat process, right.
Lori: Exactly. And that's really it, they are in a whole lot of mistakes around this, what I learned and
what we're doing here.
Travis: Right.
Lori: The biggest mistake is not doing anything.
Travis: Right.
Lori: And then the second biggest mistake is sending thank you's by email. Don't do that, I mean, it's
better than doing nothing but in our world of everybody communicates electronically, email, texting.
People need that physical, tactile connection, it's a human, humans are wired that way.
Travis: Yeah.
Lori: And so if you can reach out even with a handwritten thank you note, if that's all you can afford, do
that.

Travis: Right. Yeah, I agree with you 100%. So if you had to start over today, knowing what you know,
what would you do different?
Lori: I would get focused on specific target markets a lot quicker.
Travis: Why?
Lori: Instead of trying to be so broad and appeal to everyone. And I would also figure out who my ideal
client is faster. Really spend a little bit more time thinking about that and figuring out who that really is.
It took me a while to figure out that my best clients have assistants, that my best clients charge a
premium for what they do.
Travis: Right.
Lori: So I would spend a little more time on figuring out who my real target market is.
Travis: So let me tell you something funny about the college of entrepreneurship. Regular college
typically last 3 to 4 years, some people 5 years, in entrepreneurship, you can make it 10, 20 years
before you really take flight or you make it 2 years. And so exactly what you're talking about is a really
big problem with the majority of business owners, they're trying to sell everything to everybody. And
Dean Jackson says it's better to convince 10 people 100% of the way than it is a thousand people 10%
of the way. Because a thousand people 10% of the way buy nothing from you. And you can go broke in
the process and so you've got to get super focused, super targeted, and get crystal clear with those
individuals. Then once you get that channel, that group of people up and monetized, then you can rinse
and repeat yourself with the next group but the message has to be hyper focused.
Lori: Right, exactly.
Travis: And so, that's been a 10-year education for you hadn't it? Or maybe an 8 years education?
Lori: A 10 year education, expensive too.
Travis: Yeah. Well, that's the process of entrepreneurship and I appreciate you being open and candid
about that, and that's a struggle that a lot of people go through. So don't feel like lone ranger there, it's
really coming.
Lori: No.
Travis: So, listen, do your quick night-time radio DJ intro voice for me really quick.
Lori: Night-time radio, I don't even know what to say with that.

Travis: Well, you know, let's pretend like, what year is that?
Lori: That was in 2001.
Travis: Okay. And so, what would you do, like, "Hey, hey hey"
Lori: I‟m on a country radio station, so I was intro-ing stuff like, Toby Keith's, what was that song. How
do you like me now.
Travis: How do you like me now? So listen, before we transition into the lightning round, segway us
into a Toby Keith song, with your... Do you use your actual name on the air?
Lori: I did.
Travis: You did? So segway us into, for fun, a Toby Keith song.
Lori: Here's Toby Keith with How do you like me now, on...
Travis: K...
Lori: Here's Toby Keith with „How do you like me now on the Entrepreneur's Radio Show‟.
Travis: There you go. I'd figured it was going to be more like kind of the old days of Wolfman Jack, kind
of like, "Hey, hey, hey, this is Lori and I'm going to take you to Allan Jackson."
Lori: No, I didn't do that.
Travis: Yeah, okay.
Lori: I wasn't in the 70's.
Travis: Right,
Lori: That was 70's but yeah.
Travis: Okay, so let's...
Lori: Speaking of Allan Jackson, he would park his boat right near where I live.
Travis: Oh yeah.
Lori: (unintelligible 47:17)
Travis: Where are you at?

Lori: Huh?
Travis: Where are you at, are you in Tennessee?
Lori: I was living in Palm Beach County at the time.
Travis: Okay. Which is where...
Lori: I'm in Arlington, Virginia now.
Travis: Okay. Palm Beach County in what state?
Lori: In Florida.
Travis: Okay, Florida, alright. So, are you ready. I can see that you don't have your seatbelt on, so are
you ready to buckle that seatbelt for the lightning round?
Lori: Yeah, I buckled myself in here. Alright, I'm ready.
Travis: Cool, so what program or book made an impact on you related to your business that you'd
recommend and why.
Lori: Yeah, well, I know back in your episode #35, Bob Burg recommends The E-myth, a whole bunch
of other very powerful books. So first I'd suggest listeners go back and take a look at his list if they've
not already done so. For my own recommendation, I don't think any of your past guests have
mentioned Jeffrey Gitomer's book, Customer Satisfaction is Worthless, Customer Loyalty is Priceless.
Travis: I like that. I haven't heard of that myself.
Lori: My copy of this book, here's my copy of this book. Here's my copy of this book, you can see it has
all little sticky notes, stick it out all of the different pages, highlighting the gems. So I've got one page
with the sticky note on the ladder of customer service, in which the bottom rung is the customer is filing
a law suit, and the top rung is the customer is loyal and telling everybody he knows about you.
Travis: Right.
Lori: And there's another one stuck in on a page that says, "Satisfied customers will shop anywhere.
Satisfaction is not an indication that the customer will repeat a purchase." There was a lot Ads which
whack-o-you is no longer, running several years ago, and they were so excited about their, I think it
was 97% customer satisfaction rate.
Travis: Right.

Lori: And I would think...
Travis: Which I think stinks.
Lori: Who cares? Satisfied customers don't matter, what about loyal customers matter?
Travis: Right. Yeah, I agree with you. And so, give me the name one more time.
Lori: Customer Satisfaction is Worthless, Customer Loyalty is Priceless. And then the subtitle is How to
make customers love you, keep them coming back and tell everyone they know.
Travis: Cool, I'm going to have to put that on my read list.
Lori: Jeffrey Gitomer.
Travis: I'm going to have to recommend to you The Slight Edge.
Lori: I have read that one and I have it on my mp3 also as an audio, it‟s fantastic book.
Travis: Perfect. Okay, so what's one of your favourite tools or pieces of technology that you've recently
discovered, if any, that you'd recommend to other business owners and why.
Lori: It's called insightly.com. Insightly is a CRM and project management software that integrates with
Google apps and Gmail, and also with Outlook 2013 and Office 365. It integrates with Mail Chimp, and
I'm just using the basic level right now which doesn't include the Mail Chimp integration but I intend to
step up. And so the basic level is free. I have been making this the one place where all of my contacts
live because I haven't done a great job of keeping everything all in one place. And so I'm now
integrating all of the spreadsheets I have from trade shows and people I might have in other contact
management systems, or in my email, they sent me an email but there are nowhere else in any other
system, I'm putting them all in insightly.
Travis: Right. And so, that's just a CRM, no email, auto responder capacity, that's what it integrates?
Lori: Well, it's integrated with Mail Chimp, it does have that.
Travis: Okay. And so, spell that for me.
Lori: I-N-S-I-G-H-T-L-Y.com
Travis: Okay. What famous...
Lori: Usually basic, I think you're using Infusionsoft, right.

Travis: Yes.
Lori: Yeah, so it's not as robust as that but not everybody needs that.
Travis: And you need to be a little bit of a marketing ninja to use Infusionsoft, it can get very expensive,
and a lot of ways in implementing, customizing, all of those other things. Or at least you need
somebody that can walk you through it and teach you some of the ins and outs. They made it more
simple here recently, but it's definitely not a good starter.
Lori: That's what I heard.
Travis: Yeah, so what famous quote would best summarize your belief or your attitude in business?
Lori: I got, I was thinking about this one. I have a couple of them but they both tie into exactly what we
were talking about earlier. "Success is almost totally dependent upon drive and persistence, The extra
energy required to make another effort, or try another approach is the secret of winning." That is from
Dennis Waitley.
Travis: I like it, what's the other one?
Lori: “Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common
than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not; the world is full of educated failures. Persistence and determination alone are
omnipotent.” And that is from Calvin Coolidge.
Travis: Yeah, I'm familiar with that quote, there's a lot of really incredible wisdom in that. And to
interpret a lot of people believe that genius is ordained and in some cases it is, you know. Maybe
Einstein was born with a different brain than everybody else, I don't know. But I believe that the majority
of geniuses are developed through thinking through growth and through that journey. And I believe that
the majority of geniuses that you'll encounter are business owners because out of a need to develop
and grow, right.
Lori: Yeah. Again, it comes back to being aware of opportunities that are presented to you and taking
action on them.
Travis: And you said something, I think we talked about it before we actually started the show, and you
talked about the incredible amount of time and effort that goes into growing yourself personally and
along with professionally. And that's a great point, there's a little child in all of us and so when we get
angry or when something goes wrong, we've all had moments where we're not our best selves and we
resort to that little child, an observation that I have made is as I've grown and improved and educated
myself and all those things that little child in me grows up and gets older and acts less ridiculous and

throws less tantrums and less all of the stuff that you would be embarrassed of. And it takes years of
effort and wisdom for that to happen. But it only recently that it hit me that that inner child in me is not
as young as it used to be. I don't throw those temper tantrum and do the... You know, and it's just a by-
product of reading and growing, and listening, and learning, and not having a know-it-all attitude, I'm
willing to learn from anyone and everyone and getting an opportunity to share my experience and learn
from you also is you and many others is I think critical to that formula, do you agree with that.
Lori: I completely agree. It's a matter of becoming more accepting of what is. Entrepreneurs constantly
want to change, and push, and move things. And that's great, we can do that, but there are limitations
to what we can make happen in certain time frames and by that I mean, sometimes you can keep
banging your head against the wall but the timing isn't right. So it won't happen next year, it's going to
happen when it happens. So you need to take whatever action you can but then you also need to
sometimes get back and let whatever higher power you might believe in, take some action as well. You
can't always be moving forward at a hundred miles an hour.
Travis: Yeah. I agree with you. And I think everything seems like a contradiction when you hit closer
because you can slice things so thin that it sounds like--even at times I hear myself and I think, "Well,
that could be a contradiction of what I'm saying." But as you go down, it's really not, there's just too
sides of the coin and they're just sliced thinner and thinner and thinner the further you go down in this
journey. Yeah, there's so many things that we could talk about in that direction but let me get back on
track. Do you have any superpowers that you can share with us?
Lori: Superpowers...
Travis: Yeah, I mean, that you're willing to admit to on air.
Lori: I can see into people's souls.
Travis: You can?
Lori: Yes.
Travis: Cool, how?
Lori: For some reason it makes them open up to me and tell me secrets that they may not share with
other people.
Travis: Nice. How did you develop that?
Lori: I didn't have...

Travis: Or is that just a natural thing?
Lori: I think it's an intuitive thing, and it also has to do with being willing to listen, and be quiet, and let
people share whatever they feel like they need to say and I kind of hold a space for them to do that and
feel safe.
Travis: Right. Well you know, one final thought that ties in to what you just said in a conversation
before that, and part of what helped me learn and grow. When I was younger I could be debating a
topic, and I'm focused on being right. And as I got older I learned to shift to focusing on being accurate.
And so that means that sometimes, what you started your position on and your belief as correct.
Actually, you've just been proven as not no longer correct and you're willing to let go of that. And so, I
can tell when I'm talking with somebody and they're willing to change their perspective if you can give
them some incredible reasons why. And that's a critical part of growing is not focusing on being right,
focus on being accurate. And that's an important lesson in business also is you've got to have that
tenacity, kind of like what you were talking about that sometimes it's just not your time. Okay, so maybe
it's not your time but you still can be tenacious and moving the direction of that goal in search for why
you're not getting this right, what are you missing, what's wrong, what do you need to add to this to
actually get that result. In that way you can stay humble, you can stay focused, and if you stay at it long
enough, you'll crack that code and everything else will be on your own terms.
Lori: Right, yeah.
Travis: Yeah, so, anyways, we're getting short on time so what's the best way for people to connect
with you?
Lori: The best way, the website is zenrabbit.com, the blog is rabbitrouser.com, and then there's
LinkedIn, Facebook.com/zenrabbit, Twitter @zenrabbit, YouTube zen rabbit video.
Travis: Nice continuity across the board there, go ahead.
Lori: Google Zen rabbit and you'll find everything.
Travis: Right. Cool, so can you hangout for a couple more minutes?
Lori: Certainly.
Travis: Alright. So listen, I appreciate you coming on the show, a lot of fun, definitely a different angle,
from many of the other interviews and definitely worth consideration so I appreciate you taking the time
out and sharing that with us.
Lori: My pleasure.

Travis: You bet. So listen, I want to remind you guys that you can go to find all the links to the books
and the resources mentioned in the show and you probably didn't get a chance to type all of those
URL's that Lori told you, so I'm going to put them up for you, that way you can just go to the show notes
and click on them. Now, remember that we've created a new site called
RockstarEntrepreneurNetwork.com, and it's under construction, still doing a few changes here and
there, but basically we I want to create a network where I have lots of resources that I want to share
with you that will help you and everybody else that listens to the show grow your success. And so,
that's one of the reasons why we've created that site. I've also, while you're there, I want you to send us
a voice message with any challenges or problems that you're having with your business. What's
keeping you from growing or finding that next level of success, something that will allow you to reach
your true potential and make a difference. Are you struggling with marketing, staffing, sales, profits, it
really doesn't matter, any aspect of business. Just click on the send us a voice message, it‟s going to
be on the right side of the screen, it's like a little icon of a speaker. And then give us your name, your
business type, and what the problem is, and we'll start answering your questions at the end of the
show.
Today I want to close the show with asking you a question that I asked a couple of episodes back but
it's something worth asking you again, and the question is, Have you taken the time to set some goals
for yourself and your business? Sounds simple, sounds trivial, maybe you have them in your mind but
that's not good enough, you've got to have a target that you go on after, and you're got to see that
target. If you're going to shoot at a target you need to see the target. So write them down and be crystal
clear about the details. Just focus on three things, three things personally, three things professionally.
And then I want to remind you that no matter where you're at as an entrepreneur, what size of business
you're at, everybody's watching you, there's a lot of people that would love to have the nerve to go after
their dreams, just like you are, just like Lori has, and so you're a living example of doing that. And so I
know that when I first started out I thought my business is nothing, nobody's watching me, well that's
not true. Generation, little kids are watching you, neighbor, everybody's watching you. And when you're
doing things on your own terms when everybody else is having to get in their car and go do what
they're told to do. And if you are an entrepreneur at heart, you know that's not your calling, so I want to
be crystal clear that you're an inspiration to those around you to go after their dreams to so I want to
encourage you to keep it up.
So, since Lori shared a Dennis Waitley quote, I'm going to share another one from him that I recently
mentioned but I like it that much that I'm going to repeat it. And so the quote reads, "Learn from the
past, set vivid, detailed goals for the future, and live only in the moment of time which you have any
control over, which is now." Right Lori?
Lori: Good stuff.

Travis: Yes. So, listen, that's all for now. Lori you want to say goodbye?
Lori: Bye, thank you.
End of Interview
Travis: This is Travis Lane Jenkins signing off for now. To your incredible success, we'll talk to you in
the next episode.

How We Can Help You
We know that finding someone that you can trust online today is hard and that so many “so called
gurus” are self-‐appointed and have never really even done what they teach you to do. That‟s exactly
why we created the Double Your Profits Business Accelerator. This is an exclusive offer for our fans at
a fraction of its normal cost.
Here's what to expect. We'll Schedule a 'One on One' private session, where we'll take the time to dive
deep into your business and tell you what is missing, so that you can have your best year ever!
We'll do this by performing a S.W.O.T. Analysis. This tells us your Strengths, Weaknesses,
Opportunities and Threats within your business.
This will be an eye opener for YOU, for several reasons, however some of the most common reasons
are.
As the 'Business Owner' it‟s difficult to see the big picture of your own business because you‟re in the
middle of a daily management.
And you are too emotionally involved to completely impartial.
This is a common problem for EVERY business owner. It doesn‟t matter if you are a one-man army, or
an army of 150, the problem is still the same.
Travis Lane Jenkins
Business Mentor-Turn Around Specialist
Radio Host of The Entrepreneurs Radio Show
“Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs That Grow Your Business"

The Entrepreneurs Radio Show 066 Lori Saitz

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