I gave this talk at the Google Firestarters event in London on 17th September 2014. It’s a personal tale about my transition from marketing to product innovation and an attempt to talk sense about why they’re different and why they need each other.

1. Services & Stories
Why marketing and product need to play nice
-> A TALK GIVEN AT GOOGLE #FIRESTARTERS ON 17TH SEPT 2014 <-
@andywhitlock

2. I’VE ADDED COMMENTARY (LIKE THIS) TO THE ORIGINAL SLIDES
SO I CAN EXPLAIN STUFF AND POINT TO THINGS!
RIGHT, LET’S GO…

3. SO, I WAS INVITED TO SPEAK ABOUT THIS INTERSECTION
Product
innovation
Marketing
(THIS SLIDE ALSO HAD THE SPICE GIRLS’ ‘TWO BECOME ONE’ AS A SOUNDTRACK)

4. OF COURSE IT’S MESSIER THAN A VENN DIAGRAM..
Smart arse

5. AND QUITE A SENSITIVE TOPIC
“I wish marketing would stop
wasting everyone's time and
just go back to making ads”
- Product person I know

6. I INTEND TO BE LESS ANGRY AND MORE… CONSTRUCTIVE!
http://tvcinemaemusica.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/
bruce_banner_change_to_hulk_wallpaper_-_1920x1200.jpg

7. AFTER ALL, I COME FROM MARKETING, AND HAVE LONG BEEN OBSESSED WITH…
Doing useful things
that get talked about
http://wallblog.co.uk/files/2011/08/Riotcleanupbrooms.jpg

8. I’VE TRIED TO MAKE ‘USEFUL’ THINGS
FOR BRANDS FOR TWELVE YEARS…
(PRETTY SURE NO ONE KNEW WHAT A PODCAST WAS BACK THEN)
2002-2007

9. MOVING TO A DIGITAL AGENCY MEANT
ENDLESS WAYS TO CREATE NEW VALUE
Announces fresh goods on Twitter Aggregates film reviews
2008-2012

10. BUT THAT VALUE DIDN’T OFTEN LAST VERY LONG :(
I searched around for examples of ‘brand utility’ from marketing
agencies and more often than not, the sites and services had been taken down
This is such a well known phenomenon, someone wrote a book about it

11. ALL THIS LED TO TWO EPIPHANIES…
(THIs IS WHAT AN
EPIPHANY LOOKS LIKE)

12. 1
“Life’s too short to make
things no one wants”
- Ash Maurya

13. 2
Differentiate the product
before the brand
WHY DIFFERENTIATE BRANDS THAT HAVE PARITY PRODUCTS WHEN
YOU CAN DIFFERENTIATE THE PRODUCTS DIRECTLY !?
(wHICH WILL DIFFERENTIATE THE BRAND AS A BY-PRODUCT ANYWAY!

14. THOSE EPIPHANIES BROUGHT ME HERE —>
WHERE WE MAKE THINGS PEOPLE USE DAILY
2012 -
Reinvented ITV News Collaborative tools for Contagious

15. Was it really so different?
(Moving from digital marketing to a digital product innovation company)

16. My first six weeks at MxM
Feeling pretty invincible;
I have super skills!
Something… feels.. different.
My clever comments aren’t helping.
Oh my.

17. IT WAS PROFOUNDLY DIFFERENT
!
I HADN’T CHANGED AGENCY, I HAD CHANGED CAREER(!)
!
I’M GOING TO EXPLAIN HOW IT WAS DIFFERENT, BUT
MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHY…

18. IT ALL COMES DOWN TO…
How success is judged

19. IT ALL COMES DOWN TO…
FORGET WHETHER OUTPUT IS
CALLED A ‘PRODUCT’ OR NOT…

20. FORGET WHETHER OUTPUT IS
CALLED A ‘PRODUCT’ OR NOT…
Are you trying to earn a momentary reaction… or an ongoing role in people’s lives?
Reaction Role

21. FORGET WHETHER OUTPUT IS
CALLED A ‘PRODUCT’ OR NOT…
Are you trying to earn a momentary reaction… or an ongoing role in people’s lives?
Reaction Role
SECONDS vs MONTHS

22. A ‘product’ built to achieve
short term marketing goals
*is* short term marketing
(THIS IS SO SIMPLE BUT IMPORTANT)

23. THIS ONE DIFFERENCE… REACTION VS ROLE
HAS A MASSIVE IMPACT ON EVERYTHING YOU DO
IT SHAKES THE AGENCY MODEL TO ITS CORE
BRINGING NEW NEEDS, RISKS AND CHALLENGES THAT
REQUIRE DIFFERENT ROLES, VALUES AND PROCESSES.
Examples follow…

24. Marketing Product innovation
• Ideas are the most valuable thing
• Strategies are sold in
• Minimum success is certain
• Attention can be bought
• Desired effect is easy to test
• Deliverables are clear
• Budgets are fixed
• It’s separate from the business
• It doesn’t need supporting
• Ideas are just hypotheses
• Strategies are adjustable
• Total failure is a definite possibility
• Users can’t be bought
• Ongoing usage hard to test
• Deliverables are unknown
• Costs are completely unknown
• Must integrate with the business
• It needs an operational plan

25. Guessing what’s going
to work is a fool’s game
Photo: REX Features via

26. THE SIMPLE TRUTH IS THAT ALL STRATEGY AND ‘IDEAS’ ARE GUESSES.
AND THAT GUESSING PRECISELY WHAT PRODUCT WILL BE LOVED BY MILLIONS,
DAILY IS PRETTY MUCH IMPOSSIBLE…
Photo: REX Features via

27. A STUDY SHOWED THAT OUT OF 400
MBA GRADUATES FROM HARVARD…
96.5%
..OF THEM FAILED IN THEIR VENTURES WHEN
FOLLOWING THEIR ORIGINAL STRATEGY
THAT’S A NUMBER WANG!
Photo by Paul Marotta / Getty Images

28. Don’t do upfront thinking
How far do you go before checking?

29. Don’t do upfront thinking
How far do you go before checking?
PEOPLE GET IN SILLY ARGUMENTS ABOUT THIS;
IT ISN’T AN ARGUMENT ABOUT DOING STRATEGY OR
*NOT* DOING STRATEGY
IT’S A QUESTION OF TRADE OFFS: HOW FAR DOWN A PARTICULAR
ROAD SHOULD YOU GO BEFORE SEEING IF YOU WERE RIGHT?

30. SADLY, ONE OF THE BIGGEST BARRIERS TO SENSIBLY
ASKING THIS QUESTION IS PEOPLE AND AGENCIES
PROTECTING THEIR LEGACY VALUE…

31. and individuals
"Institutions will try to preserve
the problem to which they are
the solution"
- Clay Shirky
- Me

32. SOME OF THE RISKS OF GOING TOO FAR WITHOUT CHECKING…
You develop a tight business model,
but it turns out people don’t want this product

33. SOME OF THE RISKS OF GOING TOO FAR WITHOUT CHECKING…
You design a great customer experience,
but it turns out you can’t afford to build it

34. SOME OF THE RISKS OF GOING TOO FAR WITHOUT CHECKING…
You work out a great technology solution,
but it compromises the revenue plan

35. IT’S WHY MXM WORKS IN TIGHT CYCLES INSTEAD OF STAGES…
LEARN MAKE TEST

36. BASICALLY, IT’S REALLY BLOODY COMPLEX DEVELOPING
SUCCESSFUL DIGITAL PRODUCTS. IN FACT, THE WORD
‘PRODUCT’ ISN’T PARTICULARLY HELPFUL EITHER…

37. Website
Latest News - ITV New
http://
www.itv.com/news/
OUR ITV NEWS SERVICE ISN’T JUST
A ‘SITE’/‘APP’ THAT CONSUMERS USE

38. Website
Latest News - ITV New
http://
www.itv.com/news/
IT’S AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SYSTEM
FOR JOURNALISTS TO CREATE NEWS

39. Latest News - ITV New THIS is the product
Website
http://
www.itv.com/news/
Brand new CMS
Apps and site
New workflow

40. ‘Product’ Design
Venture Design

41. DESIGNING ENTIRE VENTURES GOES WAY BEYOND SIMPLY
CREATING A NEW APP OR SERVICE.
WHICH IS WHY WE’VE STARTED TO HIRE AND BUILD TEAMS
FOR OUR CLIENTS TO RUN PRODUCTS LONG-TERM
Link
http://www.phinhall.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Chicks-in-Incubator.jpg

42. So we don’t need
marketing then?
WE JUST MAKE REALLY VALUABLE
SERVICES AND THEY SELL THEMSELVES!
Hooray!

43. No, it turns out
this isn’t the case…
http://dudesinstartupshirts.tumblr.com/
AND WHILE MARKETEERS TRY TO GET BETTER AT
PRODUCT INNOVATION, PRODUCT PEOPLE ARE TRYING
TO GET BETTER AT MARKETING…
http://dudesinstartupshirts.tumblr.com/

44. LOOK NO FURTHER THAN…

45. I ORIGINALLY SHARED A REALLY BAD (FUNNY)
ATTEMPT AT A KICKSTARTER VIDEO TO HIGHLIGHT HOW
BAD AT MARKETING SOME PRODUCT PEOPLE CAN BE…
BUT IT FELT A BIT CRUEL, SO I REMOVED IT. I’M SURE
YOU’VE SEEN EXAMPLES…

46. ANYWAY…
“No marketing” needs to
finally stop being a badge of
honour for product people

47. THESE THINGS NEED ONE ANOTHER
service
story
GREAT SERVICES CREATE STORIES;
GREAT STORIES REINFORCE THE SERVICE

48. BUT YOU MUST START WITH THE SERVICE!
service
story
GOOD STORIES DON’T NECESSARY LEAD TO GOOD SERVICES
(I could have gone on about this, but I ran out of time)

49. ALSO IMPORTANT:
Great products lead to good
stories, but not good storytelling

50. THAT ALL GOT A BIT RAMBLY.
I TOTALLY MADE IT ALL HANG TOGETHER ON THE NIGHT
ANYWAY…

51. Make useful things
THIS IS MY JAM
tell stories with them

52. Make useful things
THIS IS MY JAM
tell stories with them
MARKETING FOLK NEED TO RESPECT THAT PRODUCT INNOVATION IS AN
ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THING; IT’S BEYOND THEIR EXISTING EXPERTISE
AND PRODUCT PEOPLE NEED TO RESPECT THE SKILL AND IMPORTANCE OF
GREAT STORYTELLING; MARKETING IS *NOT* THE ENEMY OF UTILITY

53. I PLAYED SOME SEXY MUSIC AT THIS POINT
MADE EVERYONE FEEL WARM AND FUZZY
ABOUT NEEDING ONE ANOTHER,
THEN WENT FOR THE BIG FINALE…

54. What have I learned?
1. Differentiate the service before the brand
2. Spend less time guessing
3.Great products lead to good stories, but not good storytelling
@andywhitlock
SAY HI