David B. Lat is an American blogger and a former federal prosecutor. He is the founder and managing editor of Above the Law, a blog about law firms and the legal profession.

1. Feature
David B. Lat, Above the Law
By David B. Lat, Above the Law
David B. Lat is an American blogger and a former federal prosecutor. He is the founder and managing editor of Above the Law, a blog
about law firms and the legal profession.
Lat first began blogging under the pseudonym Article III I was doing that while balancing my day job as a prosecutor.
Groupie, pretending to be a woman, for the judicial gossip And then eventually that blog developed a following and that
blog Underneath Their Robes, until he revealed his identity in was essentially my entry point into media.
a November 2005 interview with Jeffrey Toobin of The New
Yorker. Afterward Lat left his job as assistant U.S. attorney to I’m glad I made the move from law to media. I still practice
write for the political blog Wonkette. a little bit because the blogging company that my site, Above
the Law, is a part of, Breaking Media, has me as its in-house
In August 2006, Lat launched Above the Law, a blog about law counsel. So I do a little bit of legal practice, but it’s really five
firms and the legal profession, for the Breaking Media network or ten percent of my time as opposed to 100 percent of it. And
of sites. In July 2008, he became the managing editor of for me – everyone is different – for me, I just enjoy the day-
Breaking Media, overseeing its stable of blogs out of its New to-day work of being a blogger more than the day-to-day work
York office. In December 2009, Lat announced that he would of being a practicing lawyer. But everyone’s different. Some
be returning to full-time writing and editing of Above the Law, people tell me, ‘’Oh, I would never want your job.’’
after a new CEO and executive editor joined Breaking Media.
Question: What was your fascination with gossip about
Lat’s writing has also appeared in various newspapers and judges?
magazines, including the New York Times, Washington Post,
New York Magazine, New York Observer, and Washingtonian. David Lat: In terms of Underneath Their Robes, I think that
that blend of law and gossip reflected two aspects of my
The following is excerpted from a November 30, 2009 personality. On the one hand, I can happily sit down with an
bigthink.com interview with David Lat: issue of The Harvard Law Review. On the other hand, I can
happily sit down with Us Weekly. So I think it reflected my own
Question: How did you come to found a blog about the bifurcated personality in a way, these twin interests that I had.
legal profession?
The other thought that I had about it was people love to talk
David Lat: Truth of why I moved from law to media, it was a about judges within legal circles. When they’re appearing
little bit accidental, actually. I had always been interested in before a judge, they want to know what the judge is like.
journalism. I had been involved in journalism in high school People also look at judges a little bit like celebrities of their
and college, where I worked on the school newspaper at legal world. These are the people who are making the big
Harvard, at The Harvard Crimson. And I then, after a number decisions, who are affecting the lives of millions. And at
of legal jobs – I clerked for a judge; I worked at a law firm the time that Underneath the Robes was started, certainly
and then I went to the U.S. Attorney’s Office. I found myself there wasn’t a lot of attention paid to judges as people.
wanting to get back into non-legal writing. And so kind of on People would examine their rulings, for instance, or their
a lark, I started a blog anonymously because I didn’t really jurisprudence, but they wouldn’t really examine them much as
know how it would affect my day job. I started a blog called people.
Underneath Their Robes, which was kind of like a People or Us
Weekly, but focused on federal judges, oddly enough. One thing I think that has changed since I started Underneath
Their Robes in 2004 and today is we have been through three
So that, essentially, is how I first made the transition. I mean, Supreme Court confirmation hearings-Chief Justice Roberts,
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Justice Alito and Justice Sotomayor. And I think now people Number 53 on this post, is inappropriate. Can you please
are much more attuned to the personal narratives of judges remove it?’’ Because we don’t time to – on some posts, we
for better or worse. But at the time that I started Underneath get – one post we did yesterday or two days ago has 500
Their Robes, this was a little bit of a backwater. [0:03:26.03] comments on it. We don’t have time to read all 500 of them.
We’re too busy writing the next post. Because one thing about
Question: How do you handle commenting on Above the blogging is you have to continually be feeding the beast. Every
Law? 30 minutes, every hour, people want to see new content up.
David Lat: Commenting on our site is completely open, so Question: What is your position on free speech on the
we don’t even require registration. We thought about it, but Internet?
lawyers are very paranoid about confidentiality. And if they’re
going to be commenting on an item about their law firm, they David Lat: I’m generally a fan of Section 230, which is the
don’t want to provide any information about their name or law that makes website operators essentially legally immune
their email or anything. So it’s completely open. And a lot of from liability from comments posted by third parties. Because
times, people can say that they are somewhat – that they are I think it helps foster free speech on the Internet when a
necessarily in the comments. So people might say, ‘’Oh, well, website operator doesn’t have to be worried about getting
I’m a partner at a law firm,’’ and perhaps they are not. Maybe in trouble because of something that someone else posted.
they’re just a One L in law school. It would almost be like holding it– in a way, I almost see the
Internet or a site like ours as a wall and people will write
So it is a little bit of anarchic environment, which I think is things on it. And sometimes people will write things that
what makes it a little bit fun. And they develop their own are intelligent and substantive and sometimes people will
means and their own inside jokes. There are sometimes times write things that are graffiti. And I don’t think necessarily
when you wish that there was a better signal-to-noise ration we should be held liable for things that people write that are
because sometimes the random comments drown out the inappropriate, especially when we do moderate them. We do
substantive ones. But for the most part, I think the comments moderate. Then there’s this argument that well, because you
are actually quite helpful. And I think that we get a much moderate, should you lose your Section 230 immunity? The
higher proportion or number of comments, compared to our case law says no. Just because you make a good-faith effort
other main competitors. And I think that is an advantage for to remove the really bad stuff, doesn’t mean you can be held
us. It can also be a headache because people might view liable for the stuff that you leave up. But it’s definitely a tricky
the site as if you judge the site based on the commenters as issue.
opposed to the material that we, the editors, are generating,
you might think that it was written by a particularly juvenile Question: What tangible benefits does ATL add to the
people, when really, the content that we put out under our legal profession?
own bylines is rather professional. I mean, it has attitude, but
we do this fulltime. This is a professional operation. But the David Lat: I think one thing that Above the Law adds
commenters can be quite rowdy. to a legal profession is transparency. Law firms and law
schools can’t hide the ball from people. And so if they have
Question: Do you moderate comments on Above the problems, whether it’s problem in terms of how they treat
Law? their employees, problems in terms of job placement for their
graduates, problems in terms of collegiality or partners who
David Lat: We do moderate comments on Above the Law with are abusive towards associates, we will try to expose those.
some regularity. Usually for the typical reasons: Something is And so, in some ways, as Justice Brandeis said, ‘’Sunlight
offensive, something, really offensive because we do believe is the best disinfectant.’’ And we are trying to bring some
in free speech. But if something is just horribly offensive, we sunlight to a world that is often covered in darkness. So I
will moderate that. If something is potentially defamatory, we think that that is a huge advantage to be able to know about
might moderate that. But we get so many comments and we what you’re getting into and make an informed decision
don’t have active real-time moderation. It tends to be more – should I go to law school; should I work at this law firm? Or
of a notice and take-down kind of approach, a little bit like even if you’re a partner thinking of switching firms, you want
You Tube uses, with respect to copyrighted videos. If someone to know what’s going on at the firm you might switch to. So
has a problem with a comment, they should email us, tips@ I think that it has a lot of benefits. I think transparency and
abovethelaw.com, and tell us, ‘’This comment, Comment greater information are the primary benefit.
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The secondary benefit, which I think I mentioned earlier, is uploaded and even reviewed and tagged for a fraction of the
just the entertainment value. A lot of what we cover is not cost that it would cost in the United States. And I think that
particularly serious. We might cover industry developments law firms are probably going to have to start figuring out how
like layoffs or pay raises or, in these days, pay cuts. But we can we utilize these services as opposed to wall them off.
also cover funny things about some lawyer or some judge who So I think one change is law firms will have to become more
did something really hilarious. And people want to have that efficient. The second is just globalization. They will have to –
something to lighten up their day. That’s nothing wrong with as I was saying –recognize how to use resources from abroad.
making people laugh, especially in a profession that takes
itself very, very – I would say too – seriously. A third thing that I think is compensation may come down.
I don’t know if that is going to be a long-term thing or not.
We do have an increasing amount of cooperation from law We’ve already seen law firms cutting salaries for associates
firms on layoff news. What typically happens is we will hear and profits per partner are declining at large law firms as well.
rumblings of it from people at the firm who might drop us a It remains to be seen whether that is going to be a long-term
line and say, ‘’We think layoffs are going down.’’ We might trend or not. But until the recent recession, profits and the
then reach out to the law firm. And sometimes the law firm salaries had reached record highs and I don’t know if that’s
won’t comment, but sometimes they will. And if they haven’t necessarily going to be the case for awhile. Essentially, it’s
notified everyone at the firm of the layoffs, what they might a matter of supply and demand. And right now, with all the
do is tell us, ‘’Hey, look, we’re going to be making this laid off lawyers, deferred lawyers, unemployed lawyers, you
announcement. Would you mind holding your coverage until just have a huge glut of lawyer talent. And when you think
we can notify our people?’’ Essentially, an embargo which of lawyer hours, that is essentially what you are selling your
entities do with news organizations all the time – And we are clients, billable hours. There is a huge surplus of potential
generally willing to do that, provided that we can preserve billable hours in search of work. And until that imbalance in
our scoop, essentially. We don’t want them to say, ‘’Hold off the market is corrected, things are going to be a little bit grim
on your coverage,’’ and then they turn around and they let in the world of big law.
somebody else know. And generally firms are pretty good
about doing that. Other times, we’re covering a layoff news Question: What is your advice to a deferred law firm
after it’s already gone out. We’ve been forwarded a firm-wide associate?
email that announces the cuts. And in that case, we’ll just
go and publish it pretty quickly, as long as we think that the David Lat: In terms of associates who’ve been deferred
email is pretty reliable. from their law firm jobs, well, I guess I would say a couple
of things. First, to be patient – you will start eventually,
Question: How will the legal profession change in the hopefully. There have been a couple of cases of law firms that
upcoming years? told associates who thought they had jobs, ‘’Well, actually you
no longer have a job.’’ But most firms seem to be honoring
David Lat: I think we are going to see a lot of changes to that commitment. The second thing I would say is focus on
the legal profession over the next decade or so, especially developing your professional skills. So if you are working in
in the world of large law firms. This is an area that I’ve also a public interest organization for that time, really take the
been covering in the freelance writing for publications as well. ball and run with it. See what kind of responsibilities you can
And law firms have to change; they have to adapt to new get. You might be able to get more responsibilities during the
circumstances. And I think the recession and the economic public interest year that you are waiting out, waiting to start
pressures that the recession has placed on firms are forcing for the law firm, than you will as a junior associate at a law
what would have been a natural process anyway of evolution firm. So the second thing I would say is really try to make the
to take place more quickly. I think that’s generally a good most of your time.
thing. I think firms have to figure out how to provide legal
services more efficiently because their clients are no longer And the third thing I would say is enjoy your time. You will
rich and fat and happy and willing to pay a lot of money have a lifetime to work. And if you want to work at a firm,
for services that they can get more cheaply through, say, then you could work for decades if you make partner or if you
outsourcing. move to another if you don’t make partner. You could work
at a law firm – one thing that’s nice about lawyers is it is a
There are outfits in India or the Philippines or other developing mental discipline. Granted, there are physical demands as
countries where you can have documents scanned and well, but it’s not like we’re baseball players. We can work into
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our 60s, into our 70s. So you’ll have your whole life to work. Question: Why are lawyers known as some of the most
And if you are deferred right now and you are either at your depressed professionals?
leisure or if you’re working at a job say at a public interest
organization with reasonable hours, enjoy it. Have dinner David Lat: I do think that law tends to be a profession that
with your wife or husband or boyfriend or girlfriend. Go on can give rise to depression and other forms of mental illness
vacation. Do the things that you might not be able to do once and other difficulties and stress-related illness. We did a
the economy turns around and you’re at a firm and you’re survey recently on the site where we asked our readers to
billing 2500 hours a year. So I guess that would be my advice. mention which various stress-related, work-related illnesses
they had. And the results were really shocking. I can’t
Question: What about a lawyer completely out of a job? remember the exact numbers, but a very high percentage of
the people had suffered from depression, had suffered from
David Lat: We actually have a series on the blog called Career insomnia, had suffered from various ailments. I think it’s true;
Alternatives, where we focus on interesting things that people it is a demanding profession. You are constantly on call. We
who have law degrees are doing that don’t involve working at recently posted an email from a partner at a law firm that was
a law firm. So one thing that’s nice about – one silver lining, sent around to all the people at the law firm saying, ‘’You need
I guess, to the recession generally is people are coming up to be checking your email constantly.’’ I think the partner said
with business ideas. Partly, because perhaps they lost their something like, ‘’Unless you are asleep or in a tunnel, you
lucrative, stable job at a big company and now they have to should be reading your email.’’ There’s this expectation that
come up with something else. So we’ve talked to lawyers who you’re going to be available 24/7. And that takes a toll.
have started tutoring and admissions consulting businesses, a
lawyer who has started a cupcake business. He drives around The other thing about the law – and I think one of the things
Manhattan in a truck selling cupcakes. We have talked to that I don’t miss about it – is you are essentially paid to worry
lawyers who have done all kinds of things. There’s a lawyer about other people’s problems. You are paid to almost be
who owns a chain of Subway sandwich stores. And a lot of a stress ball. People are going through something horrible,
them, even though they’re not necessarily using their legal whether it is a contractual dispute or a divorce or being
training, will talk about how valuable it is to have that kind of accused of a crime. And they give their problems to you so
education – the critical thinking skills, the communication, the they don’t have to worry about them. And so there’s this
ability to look over a contract when they are trying to launch thinking of well, my lawyer is handling that. And it can be
their businesses. These are all things that help. very stressful because you are thinking well, how I do on this
particular project could determine whether or not my client
So granted, a law degree is expensive. And so if you’re goes to jail for many years, or whether or not my client gets
thinking about going to law school, I would urge you to think enough money from this divorce settlement, or whether or
very carefully about it. But once you have that degree, it is not my client/company ends up on the receiving end of a
quite versatile. We’ve looked at lawyers who’ve gone into multibillion dollar judgment. So it’s a very stressful profession.
public relations, who’ve gone into journalism, who’ve gone So between the stress and the long hours and the fact that
into finance. There are a lot of things you can do with a law you’re often dealing with people who are in a state of conflict,
degree. I think it’s a great credential to have. I think it’s a it all adds up.
great education. There is just a question of bang for your buck
because there are a lot of other things that are good to have,
but do you want to spend $200,000 for them?
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