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Just Another REL
Presented by
David Elden, L2
Why is this important?
● Regular REL is most people's first (and many
people's only) encounter with tournament
Magic, and by extension, the judge program.
● Regular REL is a gateway to more serious
tournaments.
● Especially for L1's, most of the tournaments
you will judge are Regular REL.
Why have different REL's?
● Would you go to an FNM that did deck
checks? Would you go to a GP that didn't?
● People have different purposes for playing.
● Different tournament types exist to satisfy
different player objectives.
● Different REL's make sure it's clear to the
players whether the tournament is for fun or
for making money.
The Golden Rule of Regular REL
● Regular REL is focused on EDUCATION and
FUN.
● If you're thinking of giving a penalty or
additional remedy that doesn't fit with this
philosophy, it's time to reconsider.
(Mis)casting a spell
+
(Mis)casting a spell
● Because we caught it right away, back up to
immediately before the spell was cast.
● If it was not caught until a couple of turns later,
let the game state stand.
● There's not a hard and fast rule for how much
stuff has to happen before backing up
becomes a bad idea. Use your judgment. If
you're in doubt, it's usually better to let it
stand.
● Caution to play more carefully
O-ring your Thrun
+
O-ring your Thrun
● Remember: education and fun
● “In a serious tournament, you'd be stuck
picking a legal target, even if that means
exiling your own thing”
● At regular REL, that feels a little draconian to
me. I'd let the player take it back.
● If your player base is more advanced, it's
possible that you might want to make the
player live with the error.
Mulligan to 7
● At a prerelease, Amy draws her new opening
hand after taking a mulligan. She is on the
draw and her opponent casts a Thoughtseize
on turn one. After revealing her hand, she
notices that she has "mulliganed" to 7 and
calls a judge. What do you do?
Mulligan to 7
● Take one card at random from her hand and
put it on top of her library.
● Caution Amy to play more carefully.
● Taking an extra card away isn't getting back to
a legal game state, it's a penalty to
disincentivize people from doing this on
purpose!
Turn 4 Jace?
● Amy is playing in a Modern format FNM and
casts a Jace, the Mind Sculptor on turn 4. Her
opponent calls a judge, noting that this card is
currently banned in Modern. Amy explains that
she's new to Modern, so she borrowed her
deck. What is the appropriate action?
Turn 4 Jace?
● We have to get to a legal state. That means
modifying Amy's deck.
● Sub out any banned cards in her deck for
basic lands of her choice.
● Interesting point...if Amy is running 61, with 3
Jaces, we only put in 2 lands. If Amy's board
has Jaces in it, we take them out, but don't put
anything back.
Can I name Howling Mine with Pithing Needle?
+
Can I name Howling Mine with Pithing Needle?
● Remember: Education and fun!
● Educate the player. Let them know why
naming Howling Mine isn't a good idea. No
need to be cagey or give answers you know
are misleading.
I'll pay the 5
● A: Grizzly Bear?
N: How much mana do you have up?
A: 4
N: Syncopate with X=5
A: [moves a fifth untapped land out from
underneath her pile] Ha! Got you! I really had
five lands. I'll pay the 5.
● What do you do?
I'll pay the 5
● Players can bluff about information their
opponent can't normally see.
● But they can't lie about information their
opponent is entitled to.
● From the reaction, the player probably wasn't
cheating.
● Explain the difference between bluffing and
lying and rewind to before Syncopate is cast.
I only play 3
● Amy casts Slaughter Games on Nicole
naming Sphinx's Revelation.
● After Amy exiles 3 rev's, Nicole says “I only
play 3.” Amy stops looking and gives her deck
back.
●
Several turns later, Nicole casts her 4th
rev.
Amy calls a judge. What do you do?
I only play 3
● Players can lie about information their
opponents can't normally see.
● Nicole's bluff was legitimate, even if it wasn't
particularly sporting.
● No infraction; play on.
I'll take a Warning
● Amy draws her opening seven, then goes into
the tank. After thinking a few moments, she
says "I'll take a Warning," then looks at the top
card of her library. She puts that card back,
then declares that she will keep her hand.
What is the proper action from a judge?
I'll take a Warning
● Of course, it's against the rules to look at the
top card of your library.
● From what she said, it's evident Amy knew
she was doing something against the rules.
● It's also obvious that she did it to gain an
advantage.
● Amy has Cheated. She must be DQ'd.
Skill edge?
● Amy attacks with 2
Archangel of Thune.
● Nicole lets the damage
through, but says
nothing when Amy puts
only one counter on all
her creatures.
● You suspect Nicole
knew she gets more,
but said nothing to help
her position. What do
you do?
Skill edge?
● Usually, you have to point out mistakes when
they happen.
● Triggered abilities are the exception. You can
let your opponent miss them.
● After the match, make sure Nicole knows the
difference, but otherwise there's no need to
intervene.
● At regular REL, a judge may point out missed
triggers. Whether you do should depend on
the “competitiveness” of the store.
What can I say?
● It's the last round in
an FNM that pays
based on record as
shown. Which of
these are acceptable
conversations for the
players to have?
● X-0 = 8 packs
● X-0-1 = 4 packs
● X-1 = 2 packs
What can I say?
● A: I'll give you 3
packs if you scoop.
● N: OK, you win.
● X-0 = 8 packs
● X-0-1 = 4 packs
● X-1 = 2 packs
● Amy has offered an incentive for Nicole to
concede the match. Nicole, by accepting
rather than calling for a judge, should be
punished in the same way as Amy. Both
players should be disqualified.
What can I say?
● A: Want to split the
packs evenly?
● N: OK.
● A: Let's say one of us
won instead of drawing
so we get more.
● N: OK, you win.
● X-0 = 8 packs
● X-0-1 = 4 packs
● X-1 = 2 packs
This is OK because the split was agreed to
separately from the match result, not
contingent upon it.
What can I say?
● A: Want to split the
packs evenly?
● N: I think I'm favored
in this matchup. How
about I get 6 packs
and you get 4?
● A: OK, you win.
● X-0 = 8 packs
● X-0-1 = 4 packs
● X-1 = 2 packs
Players can split prizes as they wish as long
as it doesn't occur in exchange for a match
result.
What can I say?
● A: Do you want to just split the packs evenly?
● N: No, let's play it out.
● A: Are you $#!%%ing me? Just take the split,
you {*(&ing (*^%.
Hopefully, this stood out as being obviously
unacceptable. In addition to DQ'ing Amy, I
would report her behavior to the store owner.
What can I say?
● A: I really want the PW points. I can't offer you
anything to concede to me, but you know the old
saying, 'good things happen to good people'...
● N: I concede.
Here, an offer has obviously been made, even if it wasn't
clearly articulated what the incentive is. An offer of a bribe
need not be specific or even verbally communicated to
damage the integrity of the event. Again, Nicole should have
called a judge. Because she didn't, she is DQ'd along with
Amy.
What can I say?
● A: It's turn 5 of turns, and we're in a stall. Do you
want to roll for it?
● N: [gets out dice]
Definitely unacceptable. Players have agreed to roll a die to
determine the winner. Again, it is immaterial that the
agreement was not verbal; the tournament integrity is still in
jeopardy. Apparently, this behavior is commonplace in Yu-Gi-
Oh, where the rules do not support draws, so keep your eyes
out, especially among players who play both games.
What can I say?
● A: It's turn 5 of turns, and we're in a stall. Who do you think
would have won?
● N: [reveals hand, which contains many counterspells and two
planeswalkers] I think I was in a good spot.
● A: Fair enough, you can have it.
Players may concede at any point in the game. Further, it is
legal to reveal cards in your hand to an opponent. Nothing in
this exchange is against the rules.
What can I say?
● A: It's turn 5 of turns, and we're in a stall. Who do you think
would have won?
● N: [reveals top 3 cards of library - a wrath effect, a
planeswalker, and a draw spell] Looks like I had some gas
coming up. How about you?
● A: [reveals her top 3 cards, all lands] I got nothing, you win.
This is not allowed. While it's OK to reveal cards that you can
see, looking at cards that you aren't entitled to see in order to
determine "who would win" is not, because this entails using
information not available as part of the game - in other
words, an outside the game method - to determine a winner.
Questions?
● Please be gentle.

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Just Another REL

  • 1. Just Another REL Presented by David Elden, L2
  • 2. Why is this important? ● Regular REL is most people's first (and many people's only) encounter with tournament Magic, and by extension, the judge program. ● Regular REL is a gateway to more serious tournaments. ● Especially for L1's, most of the tournaments you will judge are Regular REL.
  • 3. Why have different REL's? ● Would you go to an FNM that did deck checks? Would you go to a GP that didn't? ● People have different purposes for playing. ● Different tournament types exist to satisfy different player objectives. ● Different REL's make sure it's clear to the players whether the tournament is for fun or for making money.
  • 4. The Golden Rule of Regular REL ● Regular REL is focused on EDUCATION and FUN. ● If you're thinking of giving a penalty or additional remedy that doesn't fit with this philosophy, it's time to reconsider.
  • 6. (Mis)casting a spell ● Because we caught it right away, back up to immediately before the spell was cast. ● If it was not caught until a couple of turns later, let the game state stand. ● There's not a hard and fast rule for how much stuff has to happen before backing up becomes a bad idea. Use your judgment. If you're in doubt, it's usually better to let it stand. ● Caution to play more carefully
  • 8. O-ring your Thrun ● Remember: education and fun ● “In a serious tournament, you'd be stuck picking a legal target, even if that means exiling your own thing” ● At regular REL, that feels a little draconian to me. I'd let the player take it back. ● If your player base is more advanced, it's possible that you might want to make the player live with the error.
  • 9. Mulligan to 7 ● At a prerelease, Amy draws her new opening hand after taking a mulligan. She is on the draw and her opponent casts a Thoughtseize on turn one. After revealing her hand, she notices that she has "mulliganed" to 7 and calls a judge. What do you do?
  • 10. Mulligan to 7 ● Take one card at random from her hand and put it on top of her library. ● Caution Amy to play more carefully. ● Taking an extra card away isn't getting back to a legal game state, it's a penalty to disincentivize people from doing this on purpose!
  • 11. Turn 4 Jace? ● Amy is playing in a Modern format FNM and casts a Jace, the Mind Sculptor on turn 4. Her opponent calls a judge, noting that this card is currently banned in Modern. Amy explains that she's new to Modern, so she borrowed her deck. What is the appropriate action?
  • 12. Turn 4 Jace? ● We have to get to a legal state. That means modifying Amy's deck. ● Sub out any banned cards in her deck for basic lands of her choice. ● Interesting point...if Amy is running 61, with 3 Jaces, we only put in 2 lands. If Amy's board has Jaces in it, we take them out, but don't put anything back.
  • 13. Can I name Howling Mine with Pithing Needle? +
  • 14. Can I name Howling Mine with Pithing Needle? ● Remember: Education and fun! ● Educate the player. Let them know why naming Howling Mine isn't a good idea. No need to be cagey or give answers you know are misleading.
  • 15. I'll pay the 5 ● A: Grizzly Bear? N: How much mana do you have up? A: 4 N: Syncopate with X=5 A: [moves a fifth untapped land out from underneath her pile] Ha! Got you! I really had five lands. I'll pay the 5. ● What do you do?
  • 16. I'll pay the 5 ● Players can bluff about information their opponent can't normally see. ● But they can't lie about information their opponent is entitled to. ● From the reaction, the player probably wasn't cheating. ● Explain the difference between bluffing and lying and rewind to before Syncopate is cast.
  • 17. I only play 3 ● Amy casts Slaughter Games on Nicole naming Sphinx's Revelation. ● After Amy exiles 3 rev's, Nicole says “I only play 3.” Amy stops looking and gives her deck back. ● Several turns later, Nicole casts her 4th rev. Amy calls a judge. What do you do?
  • 18. I only play 3 ● Players can lie about information their opponents can't normally see. ● Nicole's bluff was legitimate, even if it wasn't particularly sporting. ● No infraction; play on.
  • 19. I'll take a Warning ● Amy draws her opening seven, then goes into the tank. After thinking a few moments, she says "I'll take a Warning," then looks at the top card of her library. She puts that card back, then declares that she will keep her hand. What is the proper action from a judge?
  • 20. I'll take a Warning ● Of course, it's against the rules to look at the top card of your library. ● From what she said, it's evident Amy knew she was doing something against the rules. ● It's also obvious that she did it to gain an advantage. ● Amy has Cheated. She must be DQ'd.
  • 21. Skill edge? ● Amy attacks with 2 Archangel of Thune. ● Nicole lets the damage through, but says nothing when Amy puts only one counter on all her creatures. ● You suspect Nicole knew she gets more, but said nothing to help her position. What do you do?
  • 22. Skill edge? ● Usually, you have to point out mistakes when they happen. ● Triggered abilities are the exception. You can let your opponent miss them. ● After the match, make sure Nicole knows the difference, but otherwise there's no need to intervene. ● At regular REL, a judge may point out missed triggers. Whether you do should depend on the “competitiveness” of the store.
  • 23. What can I say? ● It's the last round in an FNM that pays based on record as shown. Which of these are acceptable conversations for the players to have? ● X-0 = 8 packs ● X-0-1 = 4 packs ● X-1 = 2 packs
  • 24. What can I say? ● A: I'll give you 3 packs if you scoop. ● N: OK, you win. ● X-0 = 8 packs ● X-0-1 = 4 packs ● X-1 = 2 packs ● Amy has offered an incentive for Nicole to concede the match. Nicole, by accepting rather than calling for a judge, should be punished in the same way as Amy. Both players should be disqualified.
  • 25. What can I say? ● A: Want to split the packs evenly? ● N: OK. ● A: Let's say one of us won instead of drawing so we get more. ● N: OK, you win. ● X-0 = 8 packs ● X-0-1 = 4 packs ● X-1 = 2 packs This is OK because the split was agreed to separately from the match result, not contingent upon it.
  • 26. What can I say? ● A: Want to split the packs evenly? ● N: I think I'm favored in this matchup. How about I get 6 packs and you get 4? ● A: OK, you win. ● X-0 = 8 packs ● X-0-1 = 4 packs ● X-1 = 2 packs Players can split prizes as they wish as long as it doesn't occur in exchange for a match result.
  • 27. What can I say? ● A: Do you want to just split the packs evenly? ● N: No, let's play it out. ● A: Are you $#!%%ing me? Just take the split, you {*(&ing (*^%. Hopefully, this stood out as being obviously unacceptable. In addition to DQ'ing Amy, I would report her behavior to the store owner.
  • 28. What can I say? ● A: I really want the PW points. I can't offer you anything to concede to me, but you know the old saying, 'good things happen to good people'... ● N: I concede. Here, an offer has obviously been made, even if it wasn't clearly articulated what the incentive is. An offer of a bribe need not be specific or even verbally communicated to damage the integrity of the event. Again, Nicole should have called a judge. Because she didn't, she is DQ'd along with Amy.
  • 29. What can I say? ● A: It's turn 5 of turns, and we're in a stall. Do you want to roll for it? ● N: [gets out dice] Definitely unacceptable. Players have agreed to roll a die to determine the winner. Again, it is immaterial that the agreement was not verbal; the tournament integrity is still in jeopardy. Apparently, this behavior is commonplace in Yu-Gi- Oh, where the rules do not support draws, so keep your eyes out, especially among players who play both games.
  • 30. What can I say? ● A: It's turn 5 of turns, and we're in a stall. Who do you think would have won? ● N: [reveals hand, which contains many counterspells and two planeswalkers] I think I was in a good spot. ● A: Fair enough, you can have it. Players may concede at any point in the game. Further, it is legal to reveal cards in your hand to an opponent. Nothing in this exchange is against the rules.
  • 31. What can I say? ● A: It's turn 5 of turns, and we're in a stall. Who do you think would have won? ● N: [reveals top 3 cards of library - a wrath effect, a planeswalker, and a draw spell] Looks like I had some gas coming up. How about you? ● A: [reveals her top 3 cards, all lands] I got nothing, you win. This is not allowed. While it's OK to reveal cards that you can see, looking at cards that you aren't entitled to see in order to determine "who would win" is not, because this entails using information not available as part of the game - in other words, an outside the game method - to determine a winner.